Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving - NCRS Discussion Boards

Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

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  • Patrick B.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • August 31, 1985
    • 1992

    #16
    Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

    I have a 70 LT-1 with the original unsleeved calipers that have been preserved by Silicon fluid since 1975. I worked for an NHTSA auto safety lab that was experimenting with silicon brake fluid before it was given the DOT-5 designation and approved for use in new vehicles. The fluid was made by Dow and was clear. One experiment was to see if it could be used by just bleeding the old fluid out and the silicon in. After about a year we disassembled the calipers and the fluid in them was a gooey rusty mess. We found that was not the correct was to use silicon. Next we honed the calipers, which were still usable, flushed the lines with alcohol, cleaned all the fluid out of the master cylinder and puy the silicon fluid in the dry system. After another six months or so, we opened up a caliper and it was absolutely clean and rust free.

    In 2007, after 32 years of not touching the brake system, the car began to pull to one side because of some leakage onto the pads. When I dissassembled the caliper, it was still perfectly clean and rust free, and the rubber parts still looked good. It was hard to see why it leaked, but I think the lips of the piston seals had simply lost their resiliency. After three years of storage the other front caliper began to leak and I just replaced its seals too.

    Silicon brake fluid is very benign stuff that does not hurt the GM brake seals even after 35 years of exposure, and keeps cast iron rust free if used correctly. There is no way it could harm stainless steel sleeves.

    Comment

    • Terry M.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • September 30, 1980
      • 15580

      #17
      Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

      Pat, Those results parallel a report in SAE papers from the mid to late 1960s or so -- that the US Army did in Panama. You want awful humid conditions to store a vehicle? They had it. They did test the performance of the brake systems and found no degradation even with that goo in the system. Go figure.

      Back in the mid to late 1960s Dow recommended simply installing the silicon fluid and flushing it through the system -- and the Army found that was NOT good. They found the black goo you did. I have some of those cans from Dow. Just some more petrolinia now.
      Terry

      Comment

      • Mike T.
        Very Frequent User
        • December 31, 1991
        • 568

        #18
        Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

        If I could stray a bit off course for a moment here, when flushing out a DOT 3 brake fluid with alcohol prior to introducing DOT 5, are we we talking Isopropyl (Rubbing) Alcohol?
        Thanks,
        Mike T. - Prescott AZ.

        Comment

        • Terry M.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • September 30, 1980
          • 15580

          #19
          Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

          That is what I used, but in hindsight the water that is added to isopropyl is not good. I don't know how to get non-water added alcohol -- other than at the liquor store -- and that seems a shame to use for this. Having the brake system smell like scotch or gin might be interesting though. I think I would use one of the aerosol "brake clean" products from the FLAPS if I were to do it again even though I have no regrets. I did blow out the system with shop air following the alcohol.
          Terry

          Comment

          • Kenneth B.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • August 31, 1984
            • 2086

            #20
            Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

            Originally posted by Tom Ames (9906)
            I've been using Lone Star for years, never had an issue. Ken and his crew are great. I would highly recommend them. I'm a restorer so I use them regularly.
            I agree they do a great job!
            KEN
            65 350 TI CONV 67 J56 435 CONV,67,390/AIR CONV,70 454/air CONV,
            What A MAN WON'T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE

            Comment

            • Jack H.
              Very Frequent User
              • October 31, 1991
              • 146

              #21
              Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

              100% denatured alcohol has no water.

              Comment

              • Peter L.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • May 31, 1983
                • 1930

                #22
                Re: Denatured Alcohol

                While 100 denatured alcohol might not contain any water something has been added to "denature" it; so the label should be checked to make sure whatever is used to "denature" the ethanol won't cause a problem in the brake system.

                Pete

                Info from WIKIPEDIA -
                Denatured alcohol (or methylated spirits) is ethanol that has additives to make it more poisonous or unpalatable, and thus, undrinkable. In some cases it is also dyed.
                Denatured alcohol is used as a solvent and as fuel for spirit burners and camping stoves. Because of the diversity of industrial uses for denatured alcohol, hundreds of additives and denaturing methods have been used. Traditionally, the main additive is 10% methanol, giving rise to the term 'methylated spirit'. Other typical additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and denatonium.[1]

                Comment

                • Michael F.
                  Expired
                  • June 4, 2009
                  • 291

                  #23
                  Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                  Originally posted by Jack Hoke (20134)
                  100% denatured alcohol has no water.
                  You can get it at woodworking supply stores. Or Home depot. They use it in furniture finishing. Makes the grain in the wood stand up.

                  Comment

                  • Mark P.
                    Very Frequent User
                    • May 13, 2008
                    • 934

                    #24
                    Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                    I recommend calling Joe Way at Sierra Specialty. http://www.brakecylinder.com/

                    He is very informative and was great to deal with when I have my C1 MC resleaved and rebuilt. He helped me decide to go with a brass sleeve instead of stainless.

                    He was reasonable and turned my MC around in about a week.

                    Comment

                    • Jack H.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • October 31, 1991
                      • 146

                      #25
                      Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                      Why did he suggest brass over stainless?

                      Comment

                      • Mark P.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • May 13, 2008
                        • 934

                        #26
                        Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                        Jack - This is what his website says and what he told me too:



                        Why do you use brass? Why not stainless steel?

                        The proper grades of stainless steel are fine for sleeves *if* they are installed properly. For metallurgical reasons, they must be put in with a quite tight interference fit. This fit works fine on massive disc calipers, but can break relatively thin-walled master and wheel cylinders. Much of the work we do is on cylinders that are difficult if not impossible to replace, so we can't take a chance on breaking them. We can use different assembly techniques with brass that do not risk breaking the casting.
                        We often re-sleeve cylinders that have had stainless sleeves installed improperly. The typical failure mode for these cylinders is that the bond between the sleeve and the casting fails, allowing the sleeve to push out of the cylinder when pressure is applied. See a set of Dunlop caliper pods with three out of four failed sleeves. The fourth sleeve was close to failure.
                        It's important to note that these systems do not fail from wear but rather from pitting caused by rust or corrosion. Brake parts move so slowly and so seldom, relatively speaking, and are so well lubricated that wear just isn't a factor. Even soft, non-anodized aluminum cylinders (that haven't been honed) show very little to no wear if we can find enough uncorroded surface to get a measurement. If we can prevent the pitting, we prevent the failure. The tempered brass we use is much harder than cast aluminum and not much softer than cast iron. The additional hardness of SS is just not an advantage in brake cylinders. In addition, brass is by nature a bearing material. SS is not.

                        Comment

                        • Gary C.
                          Administrator
                          • October 1, 1982
                          • 17593

                          #27
                          Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                          CSSB a long time NCRS member and Driveline advertiser did mine with S.S. sleeves over 15 years ago and no problems to date. Gary....

                          NCRS Texas Chapter
                          https://www.ncrstexas.org/

                          https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61565408483631

                          Comment

                          • Joe R.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • July 31, 1976
                            • 4549

                            #28
                            Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                            As most of you know, I have been dealing in Corvettes and Corvette Parts for the past 30 plus years.
                            During that time I have used Lonestar and have found that there is not a more honest group of workers and owners on the planet.
                            I can say without a doubt there is nothing that Ken McCormick or his staff will not do to satisfy a customer.
                            There is not a perfect product on the market but if something goes wrong you can rely on Lonestar to stand behind everything they manufacturer and sell.

                            Also, on the Dot 5 vs other fluids, someone might look into the possibility of brass having a reaction to Silicone over a period of time. Stainless in the purer alloys will not react with anything. Some of the cheaper grades of stainless does not hold up well to some fluids.

                            JR

                            Comment

                            • Charlie P.
                              Very Frequent User
                              • July 31, 2003
                              • 260

                              #29
                              Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                              Interesting note- I ordered calipers from Muskegon Brake, then I started wishing I had used Lone Star when I was reading some old threads saying how great they were. Then I get the calipers from Muskegon, and there is "Lone Star Caliper" right on the boxes. Guess I am good to go.

                              Comment

                              • Peter L.
                                Extremely Frequent Poster
                                • May 31, 1983
                                • 1930

                                #30
                                Re: Lone Star Caliper and MC SS sleeving

                                I had the brake calipers and the MC sleeved by Stainless Steel Brakes Corp on my 67 back in April 1992 and used silicone brake fluid when I re-installed them. Drove the car to the Western Regional from Los Alamos to Albuquerque and back and have no problems and trust me you want your brakes to be working on that trip. Pete

                                Comment

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