Texas Division Motor Vehicle

[John M.]

I received the The following information on Firday, November 5, 2010. I thought I would pass it on.

Currently, all title documents issued prior to September 1, 1993 have been destroyed. At the beginning of the new fiscal year, on September 1, 2010, any title issued prior to September 1, 2000, were sent for destruction.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

John, I suspect what they mean with this "boiler plate" statement is that they have sent all HARD copies of title documents prior to 2000 for distruction, and have zero interest in supplying copies of microfilmed documents to the general public.

I doubt the State of Texas has the option to destroy ALL copies of title documents, since many of those vehicles are still in service, and may change hands at any time.

I personally have a vehicle that I've continously owned since 1987, and have registered every year. I garontee that if I sell that vehicle tomorrow, the State of Texas is going to want their money for transfering the title, and they can't very well do that if they can't verify the seller is the rightful owner.

I had a title search done for my 70 around 1990, back before the government came to help us. Even then, Texas had already begun destroying hard copies of titles, but still retained microfilm copies. My title search was composed entirely of copies of microfilmed titles. Fortunately, the copies went far enough back (there was a time limit) to permit me to identify the original owner; I didn't know he was the original owner until I contacted him. I doubt Texas will provide a title search to an individual now.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

Chuck,
I don't know if this has anything to do with your post, but I bought a 63 coupe in a farm yard in the early 70's in California. The guy never sent me the title and by then I couldn't find the farm where I bought it.
I went to the CA DMV about 10 years later and asked them to get me the previous owners address so I could register the car in my name. They said no way they only kept those records for 7 years and I would have to apply for a lost title in my name. Also the car would have to be inspected for the correct vin #.
I haven't done it yet as I will do that when I take the body off the frame for restoration.

DOM

[Chuck S.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

Chuck,
I don't know if this has anything to do with your post, but I bought a 63 coupe in a farm yard in the early 70's in California. The guy never sent me the title and by then I couldn't find the farm where I bought it.
I went to the CA DMV about 10 years later and asked them to get me the previous owners address so I could register the car in my name. They said no way they only kept those records for 7 years and I would have to apply for a lost title in my name. Also the car would have to be inspected for the correct vin #.
I haven't done it yet as I will do that when I take the body off the frame for restoration.

DOM

Perhaps Texas has also gone to this system of discarding registration records after ten years.

Remarkable...It's now easier (and likely more expensive) to have a replacement title issued than for the state to retain records for more than ten years. This is likely made easier because VIN inspections are now required for registration of vehicles every time you move to a new state. I expect the "VIN Inspection" is simply a comparison to a real time "reported stolen" list that has been facilitated by communication advances. You didn't mention having any sales document of any kind, which brings numerous questions to mind about proof of ownership.

This thread started me to thinking: I began a frame-off restoration that has been mired at about 55% complete for decades. I haven't registered the vehicle in Texas since 1991 for a couple of reasons: (1) Expense; registration and insurance (required) is costly, and (2) By definition, a vehicle in mid-frame-off restoration, can't pass the annual safety inspection required for registration anyway. Does this revelation that Texas discards ALL records after ten years mean that I will have to apply for a replacement title before the car can be registered and inspected?

[Domenic T.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

Chuck,
I registered my 67, which also had to have a new title, and parked it for over the 7 year period in CA. All they looked for was the name on the title and checked my drivers licence to make sure I was the same person on the title.
Now when I did my chevelle after 5 years, they made me pay for all back registration as if I had it on the street. They said I should hav filed a non opp which has only one fee. I also tried to scrap a wrecked 280Z after giving up on it. Get this, I had to register it and then have it surgically removed from the system. In good ole CA they get you (comin and a going.)

DOM

[John M.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

The message I posted yestarday was a response I received from a person at Texas Division Motor Vehicle. The response received was in reference to the following question and statement I originally posed. In the back of my mind I tend to agree with Chuck Sangerhausen. Short of knowing the person in charge, I am afraid I am at a dead end. What follows was the message I originally posed.

Thank you for your interest and willingness to search the Texas Motor Vehicle Database for any information regarding my 1962 Corvette. I do have a question for you. I am wondering if all the 1962 vehicle records have been computerized or put on micro fiche. Are there, perhaps, some old records turning yellow stored in some old boxes in a Texas DVM sub-basement? The oldest title I have dates to 1967 in Kansas. Kansas Motor Vehicle has sent me all the Kansas titles. In addition I have all the subsequent titles including my current Colorado title. Based on your experience with motor vehicle titles, can you share with me any insight about where I might attempt a new search?

I learned from my shipping data report the car was originally delivered to a dealer in Dallas, Texas. Now you all have the rest of the story.

[Gary C.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

John, Texas has been progressive in computerizing state files since the early 80's. Microfiche before that. Texas generally ranks 2nd to California in population. Example 20 million registered vehicles annually and 14 million drivers. Kansas ranks 31st. Back in the late 80's before all the privacy law crap they had on-line records back to 1972. Even then they were reluctant to look up old titles. Since the privacy laws were enacted, Texas DMV absolutely will not look up anything except when you go to title and register a car from an old title. Volume has a lot to do with willingness. Gary....

[John M.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

Gary, I'm sure volume has a lot to do with willingness. Add in the privacy law crap, and those of us searching old auto history find ourselves out of luck. I guess I just have to accept the fact that I am at a permanent dead end. I need to dwell on the positive fact I can document the car from 1967 to present. Thanks, John

[Michael F.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

you get what you deserve for living in kalifornia or should I say jerryville now if you are offended sorry but my opinion..lol

[John M.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

Michael, not sure if you are referring to me as I live in Colorado. I am a Denver native with roots in the state beginning in 1888. I have only lived in Colorado. John

[Paul S.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

Does this revelation that Texas discards ALL records after ten years mean that I will have to apply for a replacement title before the car can be registered and inspected?

As others have alluded to, the above statement relates to paper documents--at one time, if you knew the county were a car was titled, you could pull the original MSO or in the case of a used car being titled/transferred to a new owner, the previous title. I am a lawyer and used to pull those records doing skip traces trying to collect judgement liens and for other reasons.

Your Texas title is good for as long as you own the car, registered or not. Even if the car was 100% restored and fully operational, you are not required to (i) register/plate it, or (ii) have liability insurance if you are not driving it.

I would guess that it is a "relatively" common sight for a collector car owner to show up at the local county Texas Tax Assessor with an old title for a car that hasn't been registered for years.

Also if for some reason you do need a new title, you have it backwards. The VIN inspection (and if you want regular plates, safety inspection goes first). I bought my 67 in April from an owner in Boston. The inspection is nothing like it used to be.

When I moved to Texas in 1989, when you brought a car into Texas from out-of-state, you had to go first down to the DPS and have one of their officers do the VIN inspection; take the VIN certificate down to an inspection station, do that inspection; and take both pieces of paper to the Tax Assessor for title and plates.

Now: the safety inspection stations do the VIN inspection (mine just read it off the existing MA title I handed him--wrong no doubt--he should have at least looked at the VIN tag) and did the safety inspection. Amazing.

I was actually worried about passing the VIN inspection because I could not see the VIN on the frame. It used to be the DPS would look at the VIN tag and had to find the VIN on the frame in at least one place, or you'd fail. The great State of Texas.

[Ray K.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

I have been working on trying to document a '57 Corvette with the Texas
DMV. We had an old TX title but the car had not been registered for many years. TX DMV told me that they are purging all old records from their system if the vehicle has not been registered in the last 16 years.

Ray

[Cecil L.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

What's hard to reconcile with all the privacy laws, is that with an FAA registration number, I can find the name, address, and phone number of the current owner of any aircraft in the US. I can also get copies of all previous ownership records in the FAA's files. I have all records of my 46 North American Navion back to the original "MSO" in 1946 and the third owner was Kirk Kerkorian.......hmm, I wonder if he would like to buy it back?
Big difference between state and federal.

[James W.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

Gary, I'm sure volume has a lot to do with willingness. Add in the privacy law crap, and those of us searching old auto history find ourselves out of luck. I guess I just have to accept the fact that I am at a permanent dead end. I need to dwell on the positive fact I can document the car from 1967 to present. Thanks, John

John,

I'm in the same boat as you are. I recently received my GM shipping data record from the NCRS and have found out that my 1965 Corvette originally was delivered to a Chevrolet dealer coded 698 in zone 7 located in Dallas, TX by the name of Steakly Bros Inc. We have owned this car since 1974, my father bought it when he was traveling in northern Kansas or southern Nebraska on a business trip. I guess its like you said, a permanent dead end.

Best Regards,

James West
Omaha, NE.

[John M.]

Re: Texas Division Motor Vehicle

John,
I'm in the same boat as you are. I recently received my GM shipping data record from the NCRS and have found out that my 1965 Corvette originally was delivered to a Chevrolet dealer coded 698 in zone 7 located in Dallas, TX by the name of Steakly Bros Inc. We have owned this car since 1974, my father bought it when he was traveling in northern Kansas or southern Nebraska on a business trip. I guess its like you said, a permanent dead end.
Best Regards,
James West
Omaha, NE.

James:
I have run out of ideas in attempting to locate information from the Texas DMV. Perhaps the only way would be to know someone in Texas in a position of state leadership who would be in a position to "jog" free that information. Since I don't have any inside connections, I guess I am just out of luck.
Sorry you are in the same position.
John