Spongy brakes on my '67 - NCRS Discussion Boards

Spongy brakes on my '67

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  • Joseph E.
    Very Frequent User
    • March 1, 2006
    • 175

    Spongy brakes on my '67

    Over the last several months I have replaced the rear spring on my '67 L79, installed new front and rear wheel bearings and seals and installed four new shocks. I found a leak in one of the brake calipers which prompted me to repair not only that caliper but the other three as well so that they all had new seals.

    I ran fresh fluid through the system until it was clear and all of the old fluid was out. There was already silicone fluid in the system so I flushed it with new DOT 5 fluid. I installed new brake pads on all four wheels since the set from the leaky caliper was soaked with brake fluid. I followed the recommendations in the service manual for pressure bleeding the manual disc brakes at between 10 and 20 psi. There are no air bubbles coming out when the bleeders on the calipers are cracked open yet my brake pedal is spongy and the car barely stops even though driven at low (25 mph) speed.

    The brake pedal in my '66, in comparison, is like a rock when the brake is applied. That system is a single reservoir master cylinder whereal the '67 is a dual reservoir. The only thing that was done differently is that I installed Bendix ceramic disc brake pads because the parts suppliers in my area do not carry the semi-metallic pads and the ceramics were in stock. The brake pedal in the '67 will go almost all the way to the floor with only moderate effort when the car is parked and not running. Could there still be air trapped in the system somewhere or is it possible that the spongy pedal is coming from the ceramic pads?

    This is a manual brake car and there are absolutely no air leaks from the master cylinder or any of the calipers while under pressure. The brakes in the car prior to rebuilding the calipers were as rock hard as those in my '66 when applied. All of the pistons moved freely in the caliper after they were rebuilt. I bled the system again today just to be sure I didn't miss any air-there was none coming out when the bleeders were opened. I cannot think of anything else to try so if any of the members have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate your input. Thank you.

    Joseph Evans 45420
  • Timothy B.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • April 30, 1983
    • 5186

    #2
    Re: Spongy brakes on my '67

    Joseph, I would try to bleed the master cylinder, sounds like there is air at that point.

    Comment

    • Paul J.
      Expired
      • September 9, 2008
      • 2091

      #3
      Re: Spongy brakes on my '67

      Joseph, first you may wish to look in the archiives (forgive me, the ball game is on and I don't have time to give you a link). This was discussed recently. I'm not sure about 67, but earlier years were a pain to bleed all of the air out of the calipers.

      If there is no air in the calipers or the master cylinder (or the lines), replace your hoses. They can be prone to collapse.

      Paul

      Comment

      • John H.
        Beyond Control Poster
        • December 1, 1997
        • 16513

        #4
        Re: Spongy brakes on my '67

        Originally posted by Joseph Evans (45420)
        my brake pedal is spongy and the car barely stops even though driven at low (25 mph) speed.

        The only thing that was done differently is that I installed Bendix ceramic disc brake pads. The brake pedal in the '67 will go almost all the way to the floor with only moderate effort
        Joe -

        It's been my experience that if there are no leaks anywhere and the system is bled air-free, a pedal that goes almost to the floor is the result of fluid bypassing the piston seals in the master cylinder.

        I have no experience with the ceramic pads, but they're the LAST thing I'd install on a manual-brake car. My manual-brake '67 had semi-metallic pads on it when I got it, and it had very high pedal effort for normal stopping power; problem solved with installation of OEM organic pads.

        You probably already know this, but DOT5 fluid likes to be bled gently, at low fluid velocity; if there's any air in it, high pressure/velocity bleeding tends to break up the air bubbles into lots of very tiny bubbles, which are very difficult to get out of the system.

        Comment

        • Paul S.
          Expired
          • April 6, 2010
          • 148

          #5
          Re: Spongy brakes on my '67

          Originally posted by John Hinckley (29964)

          I have no experience with the ceramic pads, but they're the LAST thing I'd install on a manual-brake car. My manual-brake '67 had semi-metallic pads on it when I got it, and it had very high pedal effort for normal stopping power; problem solved with installation of OEM organic pads.
          I agree 1000%-my manual brake 67 had semi-metallic pads, old DOT 3 brake fluid and a weak MC. I flushed the system with fresh DOT 4 (which left the MC totally non-functional, which was not unexpected); since it was a bendix after market unit, I replaced it; fresh fluid again and organic pads. Much better.

          Comment

          • Joseph E.
            Very Frequent User
            • March 1, 2006
            • 175

            #6
            Re: Spongy brakes on my '67

            Thanks to all those who responded regarding my brake issue. Both of my other cars (a 65 and a 66) have silicone fluid in their brake system and were bled under low pressure without incurring this kind of problem. Also, I did bleed the master cylinder to remove any air that may have been trapped there. The flexible lines are in excellent condition and are only a few years old as I replaced them when I bought the car.

            The car did have semi metallic pads on it until I removed them recently but I never thought that it took a great amount of pedal effort to get them stop the car. It sounds like the ceramic pads were not such a good idea and I probably should have waited a few more days to order the semi metallic pads in their place. The ceramics were available and I wanted to get the car back on the road before the really bad weather sets in around here. Next time I won't be so impatient!

            Would it be better to replace the seals in the master cylinder or should I purchase a new unit? I don't know if the MC is SS sleeved or not. If a new unit is the way to go, who makes a reliable replacement that works well? I sincerely appreciate the input of those members who responded.

            Joseph Evans 45420

            Comment

            • Timothy B.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • April 30, 1983
              • 5186

              #7
              Re: Spongy brakes on my '67

              Joseph,

              If that's the original master cylinder there is no doubt about it in my mind..Rebuild the original part and put it back on the car. I think the 67(maybe 68) master has a 1" bore with a DC stamp near the lid.

              Look in archives and get some info from members on the most trusted place to send it for service.

              Comment

              • Paul J.
                Expired
                • September 9, 2008
                • 2091

                #8
                Re: Spongy brakes on my '67

                Joseph, you said the pedal was spongy, not going to the floor. However, press and hold the pedal firmly, attempting to hold the same pressure continuously on it. If it slips toward the floor, then it's your master cylinder.

                MC rebuild kits are cheap. When you disassemble it check for ridges in the bore. If they're slight then they will clean up nicely with a small hone (also cheap). Some people use sand paper but I prefer the hone. But what ever you do heed Tim's advice and keep the original part.

                Paul

                Comment

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