Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

[John D.]

I hesitate even posting this but since there are so many old guru's here maybe you can shed some light on this upcoming problem.

It appears that the ethanol is attacking the gel coat of the 63, etc 37 gal fiberglass tanks. Attacking is putting it mildly to say the least.

The fuel injections, engine fuel pumps, etc are getting clogged up with a gel coat that has fibers in it. When I say clogged I mean they are history.

Now I don't know if this problem is nation wide or not. But I do have proof that at least 2 restorations (FI) that I recently did are now shot. Shot means they are a total mess. Need done over again.

The boating industry has had complaints of ethanol eating up the fiberglass tanks and I heard they came up with a fix.

I cannot add any more thoughts except to say it's scary.

My 63 FI car is just a small tank as too poor for a big tank. I am happy it has a steel gas tank though. Maybe the big tanks need to be altered with a nice blatter, liner, ???. John D

[Rich G.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

John

This is why in aviation all the Supplimental Type Certificates (STC) for use of auto fuel in airplanes have a statement that says the STC is valid only for alcohol free gas and gives a procedure to test for the presence of ethanol. Many airplanes have rubber bladder tanks and they can be attacked also. I think the only solutions for the big tank guys is to avoid ethanol or get a metal tank. The only way to avoid it is to run 100LL Avgas. There is a list of places that still sell ethanol free gas, but I think it is only regular grade.

I had not heard of the boaters soluton. If there is one, that would be good.

Rich

[George J.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

Since many racing series that run pump gas also mandate fuel cell bladders, I would think a solution would be fairly simple. Have the tank lined, as for racing. Is there a reason this would not work, that I am missing?

George

[Mike M.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

when the tank in my ZO6 first caused troubles(about 5 months ago), the AC fuel pump contained chunks of fireglass resin, no fiberglass fibers. the chunks were brittle(as in not softened by the ethanol). i removed all the fittings from the bottom of the 36 gal tank and they too were clogged by the brittle resin chunks. i rinsed the inside of the fiberglass tank and got more chunks of solidified resin. the ZO6 has but 28K miles and i had not filled the tank to Full since i bought the car 20 years ago. just prior to leaving for the gettysburg regional 5 months ago, i filled the old tanker to full, drove the 100 or so miles over winding roads. i know the gasoline in the 36 gal tank was sloshing all over the place because the ice water surrounding the beer in my cooler was making sloshing noises. my interprtation of the problem is the resin chips inside the tank took a beating from the sloshing of the gasoline in the tank and broke loose from the fibergalss panels. i boroscoped the inside of the tank and saw no evidence of softening of the resin by the ethanol(ie, no filiments of glass fiber hanging from the inside of the tank). i'm now using avgas for this midyear. mike

[Dan D.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

If one has a fiberglass tank, consider putting a fuel filter right at the tank sending unit. It won't be seen, and if it plugs you are still stranded, but hopefully you have saved the fuel pump, FI unit or carburetor. -Dan-

[Mike E.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

I had similar problems with the fiberglass 36-gallon tank on my 62 Gulf Oil race car.

[Dave B.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

John D,

Here is some research information that I saved from studies done by Hagerty's Insurance. I have about five pages, but will attach this comment on fuel tanks. They didn't mention fiberglass tanks, but did address other tank concerns.



I can send you the whole report on ethanol if you wish in Word format by email.

Dave

[John D.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

Truthfully I was afraid to even come back on line after my morning post. But I see that my personal discovery is nothing new to some of you.
So at least I/we have made the members here aware of the fact that nasty ethanol is playing havoc with fiberglass tanks.
I will have to reread Dr. Mike's post again though as it was a bit confusing.
An extra fuel filter close to the tank is only a short temporary fix.
Fuel filters: Good for keeping old small birds and some grit. I wonder if the old NOS fuel filters are breaking down quickly with the ethanol. I wonder if the new repros are ethanol compatable. I wonder a lot about all these issues but one thing i know for sure.
We are not in for some pleasant times especially if you want your car to remain stock.
100LL is the answer but it's not really legal for us to run on the street.
So one might wonder about the old days when the big tankers were run with all sorts of racing fuel? Is this racing fuel (loosely used term) actually a milder fuel than say 15% ethanol???
Are the days of fiberglass tanks in our toys limited but just to trailer queens running 100LL?
Can a company like Quanta be talked into reproducing a look a like tank that actually has a steel inner lining?
Right now the old Corvettes with Steel gas tanks in them are starting to look pretty good aren't they.

If you ever get a chance to find some gas that does not have ethanol try it in your brand new car or whatever car you are driving. When used it feels like someone is pushing you down the highway. Then when it runs out and you go back to ethanol it's the same old same old dead horse.

I have gotten a couple of emails on this subject. Let me tell you that I cannot give anyone any advise on what to do except to avoid ethanol and how do you do that? Thanks, John D

[Joe L.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

All------


Ive said this before and I'll say it again: fiberglass reinforced plastic is an organic substance. Gasoline is an organic solvent. Over time, contact of the organic solvent with the FRP will cause the FRP to degrade. There's no way around that. The deterioration will begin the first day that gasoline is introduced into the tank (i.e. at St. Louis) and it will proceed inexorably thereafter, whether the tank is full, or not. The only thing that surprises me is that these fiberglass tanks have lasted as long as they have.

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

So at least I/we have made the members here aware of the fact that nasty ethanol is playing havoc with fiberglass tanks.
I will have to reread Dr. Mike's post again though as it was a bit confusing.

I re-read Dr. Mikes post and got a different meaning than you did. Imagine that.

when the tank in my ZO6 first caused troubles(about 5 months ago), the AC fuel pump contained chunks of fireglass resin, no fiberglass fibers. the chunks were brittle(as in not softened by the ethanol). i removed all the fittings from the bottom of the 36 gal tank and they too were clogged by the brittle resin chunks. i rinsed the inside of the fiberglass tank and got more chunks of solidified resin. ............ i boroscoped the inside of the tank and saw no evidence of softening of the resin by the ethanol(ie, no filiments of glass fiber hanging from the inside of the tank). i'm now using avgas for this midyear. mike

Joe L has got it right I bet.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

i do a lot of marine carbs and i never saw a problem other than water in the gasoline till this year and the ethanol does do something to the fiberglass tanks as i see the nylon filters that marine carbs use instead of paper or bronze full of debris. maybe the ethanol is just cleaning the whole system of debris

[Bruce B.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

The fix for boaters in Ohio is that all Ohio State Park (s) sell only pure no ethanol added gas at thier docks.

John D, does your 63 fuel car float??
Bruce B

[Joe L.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

i do a lot of marine carbs and i never saw a problem other than water in the gasoline till this year and the ethanol does do something to the fiberglass tanks as i see the nylon filters that marine carbs use instead of paper or bronze full of debris. maybe the ethanol is just cleaning the whole system of debris

clem-----


I'll bet there are not too many boats around with fiberglass tanks that are 45+ years old.

[Wayne W.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

But, I think about every gas station in the country now has fiberglass tanks. If ethanol is so bad on fiberglass, you would think that would be a problem. It may be a different type of resin now.

Wonder what type of tank they put the E-85 in?

[John D.]

Re: Ethanol and fiberglass tanks

The fix for boaters in Ohio is that all Ohio State Park (s) sell only pure no ethanol added gas at thier docks.

John D, does your 63 fuel car float??
Bruce B

Bursten, Actually my 63, the LWC does float as everytime I take it out it rains full blast and not one drop gets on the fake carpets.

LWC likes 100LL.