QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

[Joe L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Joe,
I agree about the gas station and the convienience, but when I decided to restore my car I didn't want to modify the power plant. I want it to be as real inside as outside.
I can drive cross country with timing changed and water injection. But the urge to blow away a Porche has to cancelled.
My son modified a 68 camero with a 350 to run on pump gas and it does as good as the old engines did.
But if your stuck with stock in these cars you do what you have to if you want original performance.
It's a great pleasure to blow away a late model car on the road, I can't resist the urge to show them what the cars were like in my day.

DOM

DOM------


I think the idea that old Corvettes and other "muscle cars" are the hottest things on the road is a myth. The really fast cars are the ones built today, not 40 years ago. A 2011 Camaro with direct injected 3.6L V-6 will have about 310 horsepower (SAE certified NET horsepower; not GROSS horsepower as all 1971 and earlier cars were rated). It should be able to keep up with or out-run most 60's Corvettes.

[Ronald L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

The new ones with the larger displacements, and the Mustangs too will blow by so fast you won't know what happened and they keep going well above 130 or so when a mid sixies car becomes airborne.

[Domenic T.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Ron, I was in the retail Gasoline business with Shell, Union 76 and Chevron from 1965-94. And California Smog Tech the same time. Your industry analysis is so correct. Zora Duntov told me in the 80's that "fuel injection" was designed for the SMOG problem in California and other cities, with the benefit of more power. He predictied "all" cars would be fuel injected some day. Well here we are, and the benefits of EFI and modern electronic ignition systems allow the engine to run on almost anything, including corn. But the Goverment has to let you and the "Duke's" of the world keep the engineering alive and well, so we can continue to get to the store to buy more ice cream.

I went to NASCAR in Fontana last Sunday. The "roar" on the 1st lap was great.......but the lack of the "smell" of no 110 leaded was missing. We have lived in the great "Glory Days of America"

Ihave to say AMEN to that.

DOM

[Valeria H.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

You all are missing the scope of the question. The lead content is no longer the big issue.

Please address this Duke! the problem is the increasing amount of ethanol required in the vintage engines. Not to address lobbist issues and politics but this really is a detriment to the gaskets, seals etc of our old engines.

You have the gargon but you are not convincing me in the slightest bit!

Again, I will say, Time Will Tell!
We will all see.
Valeria

[Joe L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

You all are missing the scope of the question. The lead content is no longer the big issue.

Please address this Duke! the problem is the increasing amount of ethanol required in the vintage engines. Not to address lobbist issues and politics but this really is a detriment to the gaskets, seals etc of our old engines.

You have the gargon but you are not convincing me in the slightest bit!

Again, I will say, Time Will Tell!
We will all see.
Valeria

Valeria------

Actually, "retrofitting" and earlier Corvette for ethanol formulated fuel should be about as simple as anything could be.

1) replace any rubber fuel line sections with current formulation rubber lines which are compatible with ethanol fuel. As a matter of safety, these lines should be replaced regularly, anyway;

2) replace the fuel pump (or install a kit in a rebuildable fuel pump) which conatains components which are compatible with ethanol fuel. As a matter of safety, this should be done on a regular basis, anyway;

3) rebuild the carburetor with a kit which contains components which are compatible with ethanol fuel. This needs to be done from time-to-time, anyway;

4) re-jet the carburetor IF NECESSARY. In most cases, I don't think it will be necessary;

5) the only fuel system component I have any real question about is the fuel sender unit. I don't know if they will be adversely affected by ethanol fuel blends. However, the component that I would expect would be most affected would be the float. These can be replaced.

[Ronald L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

The old style self contained coil fuel senders last a very short time in ROH containing fuels, the materials from which they were made do not have good alcohol resistance. That did not change until about 1980.

Also, I thought I saw in an earlier post a comment on catalytic converters.

Lead will kill those dead in no time. If you really want to mess up your car, use leaded gas. I would not even consider using lead substitutes in a cat. conv. car either. They will get plugged from the brick or pellets forward. I must have analyzed over 100 of those on cars that came back under warranty where people ignored the warnings. Valves, heads, and cats all plugged solid. It is one thing to take the cat off a 1980 and earlier car, but once you have a power train control module monitoring everything, forget it - leave it alone. FWIW - the errors in local mixing putting too much alcohol into the gasoline get pretty evident, usually you will set a MIL light or check engine light - even on cars built in this decade. Most people won't know how to deal with this and either run with the light on or go to the dealer. How many trips to the dealer does this administration want? H'm another way to thrift the wallet...

So to Valerie's point, call your legislators and STOP this nonsense.

[Domenic T.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Those are know as "lead scavengers" - organic compounds with bromine molecules. Lead bromide is a gas, so it gets ejected out the exhaust. Without the scavengers, lead oxide, a white colored solid, can form excess deposits.

Most leaded fuels are blended with sufficient scavengers to keep lead oxide deposits to a minimum, but back in the days of leaded mogas, engines that were rarely run hard could see excess lead oxide deposit buildup unless they got an occasional Italian tuneup.

Duke

Dida day usa da feeler guaga to a performa data?

[Gene M.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Is there any easy way for hobbyist to remove the alcohol from pump gas?

Refresh my memory, are the 60's Corvette original fuel sending unit floats foam or brass?

[Ronald L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Dom, che pizano, don b mes in wit us, we maku custum par dem ciment boots.

Gene, not really practical, I've thought about it too, but the hassle and safety aren't worth it.

I saw the NASAR announcement the other day, and even suspect they have alcohol in the mix now, so considering the av gas route.

[Joe L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Is there any easy way for hobbyist to remove the alcohol from pump gas?

Refresh my memory, are the 60's Corvette original fuel sending unit floats foam or brass?

Gene-----


1963+ are foam. I don't know what the C1 senders used for a float.

[Valeria H.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Dom, che pizano, don b mes in wit us, we maku custum par dem ciment boots.

Gene, not really practical, I've thought about it too, but the hassle and safety aren't worth it.

I saw the NASAR announcement the other day, and even suspect they have alcohol in the mix now, so considering the av gas route.

Oh, Shame, Shame on you! Isn't that what the ney sayers say is " ilegal"
street gas?

Valeria

[Paul Y.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

It's funny that you mentioned that. I had a leaking fuel sender in my 63 last August and when I drained the tank and started taking it out it sort of just disintegrated at the ground tab that went through the sender unit. I was able to rob one off of another unit that was so bad that I always wondered why I was keeping it around. The piece cleaned up real easy and I soldered the ground to it and put it all back. I put over 800 miles on it on a two day road trip without a hitch. I thought that it was just old stuff fatiguing but that happening along with the fuel line on my 66 El Camino starting to leak has got me thinking differently. I still have not had any problems with my fuel injector on that car though. Thanks again for your knowledge and expertise. Paul

[Ronald L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Oh my, I would not do that, better let's go get some old french fry oil and put that in the diesel trucks! The only thing the state is concerned about is tax revenue.

[Clem Z.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

Oh my, I would not do that, better let's go get some old french fry oil and put that in the diesel trucks! The only thing the state is concerned about is tax revenue.

since these new cars and trucks get better MPG the govt is worried that the fuel road taxes will come down so some states are making the vehicles have a transponder to check how many miles the vehicle are driven and tax you on that not on how much fuel you buy. i think that natural gas powered vehicles will hit the market as soon as someone can figure out how to collect taxes on vehicles fueled at home. the new GM volt also causes the same problem how do you get the fuel road taxes.

[Ronald L.]

Re: QUESTION ON AVIATION GAS COMPATIBILITY for Duke and all

In South America gasoline is $4.5 and higher a gallon. 20 gallon fill-up costs pennies shy of $100. The same fill-up on natural gas (conversion kits are readily available) - about $10 dollars.

There are myths there as well (Clem & Duke - please be seated from here on)that the gas is dry and does not lubricate the bottom end and the rotating mass has a shorter life.

The only real logic I could put to these myths was that on newer cars, clandestine chop shop conversions ignore the powertrain control module logic and """"perhaps"""" that was causing less than idea ignition. Basically people are runing with a check engine light on all the time.

In fact, they have injection emmulation modules to trick the PCM that it is actually controlling fuel flow.
FWIW - the range is real low and you lose all your trunk space with tubes of gas.