Frankenmotor, or what?

[Peter S.]

I'm trying to do a little research on the motor in my '62. It's not a matching serial number. Car VIN is 20867S106131.

The engine block casting is 3959512, which from what I can see is a 62-63 327 250hp 2Bolt Main

The block pad has CE3N36149 which from the Internet indicates Chevrolet replacement engine, 1963.

The heads say 3890462 which the Internet says is a "camel hump" 161-165cc Intake port, '67 300 and 350 hp head.

One has a number that looks like 02 61 and the other looks like C 16 below the casting number.

I was wondering, if the original motor was replaced early-on, as a warranty replacement engine, would they have used the original heads or would the replacement motor have it's own heads?

If the block was only cast in 62-63, would it be likely that the block was still around years later and received '67 heads? Or was the engine likely replaced in 1962 or 1963, and the heads were replaced later?

Or could the heads be the originals?

Any advice on how to interpret these numbers would be great!

[James G.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

I have seen this "short block" in 1967 Corvettes. It was a standard replacement for many applications over quite a few years.

Check the casting date on the passenger side of the distributor. It should spell out when the block was cast.

3890462 heads were used from January 1966 thru May 1967 in Corvette passenger, Chevelle, Nova and Camaro applications, all Chevrolet, 275hp,295hp, 290 Z-28, 300hp and 350hp. Valve size was 1.94/1.50, except 290hp Z-28 and 350hp engines where they were 2.02/1.60. Had "double hump" symbols similar to the earlier 461 head.

[Joe L.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

I'm trying to do a little research on the motor in my '62. It's not a matching serial number. Car VIN is 20867S106131.

The engine block casting is 3959512, which from what I can see is a 62-63 327 250hp 2Bolt Main

The block pad has CE3N36149 which from the Internet indicates Chevrolet replacement engine, 1963.

The heads say 3890462 which the Internet says is a "camel hump" 161-165cc Intake port, '67 300 and 350 hp head.

One has a number that looks like 02 61 and the other looks like C 16 below the casting number.

I was wondering, if the original motor was replaced early-on, as a warranty replacement engine, would they have used the original heads or would the replacement motor have it's own heads?

If the block was only cast in 62-63, would it be likely that the block was still around years later and received '67 heads? Or was the engine likely replaced in 1962 or 1963, and the heads were replaced later?

Or could the heads be the originals?

Any advice on how to interpret these numbers would be great!

Peter------


The GM #3959512 is a SERVICE-only 327 small block. I think it was released about late 1968, at the earliest.

If I recall correctly, while this block is machined for small journal crank, it is machined for a spin-on type oil filter. With a special adapter, it can be converted to canister style but as manufactured, I think it's designed for spin-on. Please check this feature and let us know.

[Michael W.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

The block is probably from 1973, not 1963 and was not a warranty replacemnt for this particular car.

The CE 5/50 warranty program didn't exist in 1963.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

When I changed them at the dealer there were very few complete blocks replaced unless it took the heads with the failure. A few because they were overheated and cracked the block and heads. It was up to the dealer on some matters. Some failures did light damage to the heads and we were told to check them and use them. Also all the original covers were not in the crate, Just a can of GM engine oil suppliment (STP).
The short and long blocks were unpainted.
I have a CE block in my 67 with early 68 dates on heads & block.
I did see the general manager come to the bay and say " do it all, he's a regular customer" we will cover it.

DOM

[John H.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

The engine block casting is 3959512, which from what I can see is a 62-63 327 250hp 2Bolt Main

The block pad has CE3N36149. Any advice on how to interpret these numbers would be great!

Peter -

That replacement block was made at Flint V-8 during 1973; that's all you can decode from the "CE" number. The casting date on the block will verify that.

[Thomas H.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

Peter
There should be a date stamped into the block on starter motor flange.
Tom

[Richard L.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

Peter...

I had a '67 327-350 HP car that had every number matching except for the block, which was a CE replacement block...

After tracking down the original owner, I found out why. He had the car shipped to Germany in early '68 as he was an Air Force pilot who wanted his car with him while on active duty. According to him, the motor let go with # 8 piston going through the block while he was doing ~ 60 mph on the Autobahn...Yeah, Right... He took the car to a GM dealer in Stuttgart and GM sent over a new replacement short block...It only took six months to get it repaired. They bolted every component that they could off of the failed motor thus that's why every number matched but the block...

Wish these cars could talk...

Rick

[Brian M.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

Hey Rick, how are you.

Peter...

I had a '67 327-350 HP car that had every number matching except for the block, which was a CE replacement block...

After tracking down the original owner, I found out why. He had the car shipped to Germany in early '68 as he was an Air Force pilot who wanted his car with him while on active duty. According to him, the motor let go with # 8 piston going through the block while he was doing ~ 60 mph on the Autobahn...Yeah, Right... He took the car to a GM dealer in Stuttgart and GM sent over a new replacement short block...It only took six months to get it repaired. They bolted every component that they could off of the failed motor thus that's why every number matched but the block...

Wish these cars could talk...

Rick

[Peter S.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

It looks to me like the number is 1122 between two circles. Does that make any sense? It's on the passenger side in front of the bell housing. If that's not it, where's the date found? Is it easier to see from below?

[Joe L.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

It looks to me like the number is 1122 between two circles. Does that make any sense? It's on the passenger side in front of the bell housing. If that's not it, where's the date found? Is it easier to see from below?

Peter------


Yes, that sounds almost right and, now that I understand the location you're describing, it's in the right location. I expect that the sequence begins with something other than a "1", though. The sequence should begin with an alpha character. What you are reading as "1" is likely an "I". In that case, the date code would represent September 12, 1972. In this case the last "2" would have to represent 1972 since this block casting number was not in production in 1962 and would have been out-of-production by 1982.

[Richard L.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

Hey Rick, how are you.

Good Brian...And You..???

Working Hard and Enjoying it Less...

[Peter S.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

Joe, I checked it again, and you are correct, it is I122 So September 12, 19x2 makes sense.

The thing I'm confused about is on the Internet, it says that block casting number (3959512) was 1962-1963.

See http://www.nastyz28.com/sbchevy/sblock.php

It's about 3/4 of the way down the page. It says 62-63 327-250hp.

So wouldn't it have ot be a '62 block rather than a '72?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Joe L.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

Joe, I checked it again, and you are correct, it is I122 So September 12, 19x2 makes sense.

The thing I'm confused about is on the Internet, it says that block casting number (3959512) was 1962-1963.

See http://www.nastyz28.com/sbchevy/sblock.php

It's about 3/4 of the way down the page. It says 62-63 327-250hp.

So wouldn't it have ot be a '62 block rather than a '72?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Peter------


They are absolutely 100% incorrect regarding the block being a 1962-63 block. I've seen that same reference before, so they've just "copied someone elses' mistake". The 3959512 casting did not even exist in 1962-63. The earliest it could have been released was mid-to-late 1968.

Second, I don't think the "CE" engine program and stamped code existed as early as 62-63.

Third, as John pointed out, the CE-prefixed stamping identifies it as a 1973-manufactured engine. That is completely consistent with a late 1972 casting. Since these blocks were SERVICE only, the Saginaw foundry probably cast up a batch of them and, then, Flint machined and assembled the blocks as-required by GMSPO.

Fourth, I think you will find that this block is designed for a spin-on type filter. It's possible that someone could have converted it to canister style by using a GM or aftermarket adapter. However, if the oil filter adapter it has installed is embossed 3952301, then the block was definitely manufactured as a spin-on type block. I am not 100% sure that the 3959512 was a spin-on type block, though. What type oil filter is installed on the block now and can you access the oil filter adapter?

[Terry M.]

Re: Frankenmotor, or what?

Peter------


They are absolutely 100% incorrect regarding the block being a 1962-63 block. I've seen that same reference before, so they've just "copied someone elses' mistake". The 3959512 casting did not even exist in 1962-63. The earliest it could have been released was mid-to-late 1968.

Second, I don't think the "CE" engine program and stamped code existed as early as 62-63.

Third, as John pointed out, the CE-prefixed stamping identifies it as a 1973-manufactured engine. That is completely consistent with a late 1972 casting. Since these blocks were SERVICE only, the Saginaw foundry probably cast up a batch of them and, then, Flint machined and assembled the blocks as-required by GMSPO.

Fourth, I think you will find that this block is designed for a spin-on type filter. It's possible that someone could have converted it to canister style by using a GM or aftermarket adapter. However, if the oil filter adapter it has installed is embossed 3952301, then the block was definitely manufactured as a spin-on type block. I am not 100% sure that the 3959512 was a spin-on type block, though. What type oil filter is installed on the block now and can you access the oil filter adapter?

Joe,

You got it – as usual. The CE program began during MY 1968. The TSB explaining the program to dealer personnel is dated September 25, 1967. And as John Hinkley has pointed out in the past this program relates to the extended warrantee that was offered at that time.

Edit add: As an asside that TSB states the cause of the CE and CT was a Georgia State law.