215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

[Duke W.]

At our local cruise at Ruby's in Redondo Beach last night I was talking to the owner of a stunning '55 300SL and noticed that he had these tires installed. (They looked a little "pinched" as I think the 300SL wheels are only 5" wide.) I mentioned that I recommend them for vintage C2s as they are one of only two V or above speed rated tires available that will fit the OE wheels and fenders, the other being the Avon CR6ZZ, which is a DOT legal racing tire.

The 300SL owner claimed they are out of production. I checked the Pirelli North America Web site this morning, and they are still listed, but The Tire Rack shows them as "backorder", and Discount Tire Direct shows them as "special order".

If you are considering these tires the next time you need a set, I advise that you do more investigation on their production status and consider buying a set now.

Given the "W" speed rating of this tire, they are made with the highest qualitly materials and processes in the industry and will last literally decades if stored properly before use or installed on a collector car that spends most of its time in a garage.

Duke

[George J.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

Duke,
having a set that is nearly 8 years old, can you please elaborate on the lasting for decades part. I thought we were headed for replacing tires every ten years, or so.

George

[Tom B.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

Good question. I have heard a lot lately about the 5 year rule for replacing tires and have seen many accounts of tires blowing out that still looked like new on cars setting in garages. So much so that I have been afraid to drive the '81 with like new looking Eagle STs. and you know how long it's been since they were even available.

Is it ok to trust tires that have been on a car stored indoors in a heated garage for longer than the 5 years or so that seems to be all the talk today?

BTW I'm still running the originals on my '02 Cavalier work car and the said Goodyear St tires only have about 4000 miles or less on them.

Tom

[Duke W.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

Congress gave up on setting a "tire life" standard because the experts convinced them than any such standard is purely arbitrary. It's one of very few times that Congress actually listened to people who know what they're talking about.

We've had this discussion before, but I will repeat what I know.

1. The life (in years) of a tire begins with the qualilty of materials and processes that are used to manufacture the tires, and the higher the speed rating, the better the quality and durability of the tire as it comes out of the mold.

2. Service life (in years) then becomes the issue. Given equal quality and durability to begin with a tire that sits outside in the sun all day will have a much shorter useable life (in years) than one that is stored properly for future use or installed on a collector car that spends most of its life in a garage.

Most of the tires that guys put on vintage Corvettes I wouldn't put on a minivan that I never drove over 35 MPH.

I never have and never will buy a tire for any car I own that doesn't have a spiral wound nylon cap belt, which means at least a "H" speed rating.

I've had several tread separations on race tracks and each time the tire held air and I was able to make it back to the paddock with no issues. A serious vibation told me something was wrong. One I even drove home the 75 miles from Riverside to my place without incident. All were either H of V rated with said nylon cap belt, which kept the tire from disintegrating when there was an internal stuctural failure that caused a big bulge in the tread area, which is what caused the vibration.

The oldest tires I have currently installed on my cars are about 20 years old. They have no visible exterior deterioration and I have no qualms about driving on them including some aggressive driving on twisty roads because they are of the above construction and speed rating, and they don't see much sun.

I have other tires on spare OE wheel sets for all of my cars that are up to 30 years old - all of the above construction/speed ratings. They look like new and I have no reservations about running them.

The sky is not falling unless you have a cheap T-or-less-rated or less tire without a nylon cap belt, which I would not own to begin with.

Duke

[George J.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

Thanks Duke. Sorry if I made you repeat that, I had not seen the discussion, before. Regarding the Pirelli's, I have a hard time thinking they will discontinue them since they seem to be popular with the Jag set. I have seen plenty of them on classic cars and hope that if they do discontinue them, they replace with something at least having a V rating.
It is definitely worth watching. They are the only viable performace tire, from what I could search.

George

[Joe L.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

Thanks Duke. Sorry if I made you repeat that, I had not seen the discussion, before. Regarding the Pirelli's, I have a hard time thinking they will discontinue them since they seem to be popular with the Jag set. I have seen plenty of them on classic cars and hope that if they do discontinue them, they replace with something at least having a V rating.
It is definitely worth watching. They are the only viable performace tire, from what I could search.

George

George-----


With virtually all of the major tire manufacturers the continuation of a tire model and size is determined by ONE thing: annual sales volume. They all have a number they use and once a tire model and size falls below that number, manufacturing ceases. After that, the tire will still be sold until inventory is exhausted, but that's it.

[Joe L.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

The sky is not falling unless you have a cheap T-or-less-rated or less tire without a nylon cap belt, which I would not own to begin with.

Duke

Duke------


There are many relatively expensive, major brand tires that are "S" and "T" rated. In fact, the majority of major brand tires are so-rated. Of course, such tires are not really suitable for a performance application but I think for a "transportation" type car, they are fine.

One advantage of "S" and "T" rated tires: they usually have a far greater tread wear warranty and UTOG rating than "H", "V", "Z", "Y", or "W" rated tires. In fact, many of those tires carry no tread wear warranty, at all, and often wear out in short-order even if you don't drive them hard.

[Duke W.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

I agree that high speed rated tires wear more quickly than low speed rated tires, but I think the subject W-rated Pirelli actually has a 40K mile tread wear warranty.

I wonder how many vintage Corvettes will ever wear out a set? None, I suspect!

When selecting tires I always look at the tread wear rating, and the lower the better. A lower wear rating indicates a stickier tread compound that will provide more grip both lateral and braking.

IIRC the Pirelli has a wear rating of 320. Typical low-performance tires are 500-700 and might give 50-80K miles of normal driving, but this is hardly necessary for vintage Corvettes.

With vintage Corvettes wear rating is not an issue as few are driven more than a few hundred to a few thousand miles a year.

Even when I was commuting every day I could get 30-40K miles on a set of high performance tires on my Mercedes 190.

My biggest tire consumer is the MR2. Typical of mid or rear engine cars it eats two sets of rears for every set of fronts - 15/30K miles for summer high performance tires, and 10/20K for DOT racing rubber, not including track events.

Back in the early nineties customers sued Honda over tire wear on the NSX. I think some only got 5K miles out of the rears even if they didn't run hard. I was acquainted with a Honda exec at the time, and I chided him that they needed to qualify their customers and only sell NSXs to those who understood that it was a very high performance sports car.

Back in that era compounds got softer and softer in search of maximum grip. I think the Michelin MXX was 120 and DOT legal racing tires are 100 or less.

Since that time wear ratings on very high performance tires have improved, but modern Corvettes may only get 15K miles out of the OE tires, even if they are not driven aggressively, and I think their wear rating is 300.

Duke

[Bob S.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

After having some Pirelli P4000 Super Touring tires on order (back order actually) with The Tire Rack for more than a month, I called this morning to see what the latest expected delivery is.

Tire Rack customer service informed me that production of the Super Touring has been officially discontinued by Pirelli, no delivery of tires from Pirelli is expected, and no current orders for this tire will be filled.

Bob

[Joe C.]

Re: 215/70ZR-15 Pirelli P4000 Super Touring availability status

After having some Pirelli P4000 Super Touring tires on order (back order actually) with The Tire Rack for more than a month, I called this morning to see what the latest expected delivery is.

Tire Rack customer service informed me that production of the Super Touring has been officially discontinued by Pirelli, no delivery of tires from Pirelli is expected, and no current orders for this tire will be filled.

Bob

Thanks.
I got the same answer from Tire Rack last month.
I called Pirelli USA, and NOW they will confirm this: "No longer being produced and officially discontinued in January."