Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

[Pat M.]

As I understand the prerequisites for these awards the Bowtie does not require any previous Flight award. Yet the Crossed Flags requires not just a Flight award, but a prior Mclellan/Hill award.

If the above is correct, why are C4s required to obtain the highest "as delivered" award before it can be considered for the unrestored award, unlike any previous Corvette?

EDIT ADD: I think I found the answer to my own question, since Bowtie allows any Vette 20 years or older C4s do/can qualify, and thus don't need to go the Crossed Flags route to get an unrestored award. I would've simply deleted the question but I can't figure out how.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

As I understand the prerequisites for these awards the Bowtie does not require any previous Flight award. Yet the Crossed Flags requires not just a Flight award, but a prior Mclellan/Hill award.

If the above is correct, why are C4s required to obtain the highest "as delivered" award before it can be considered for the unrestored award, unlike any previous Corvette?

EDIT ADD: I think I found the answer to my own question, since Bowtie allows any Vette 20 years or older C4s do/can qualify, and thus don't need to go the Crossed Flags route to get an unrestored award. I would've simply deleted the question but I can't figure out how.

Actually, your supposition that I bolded above is not correct. Bowtie is for any 82-or-earlier Corvette. The Crossed Flags is the only unrestored/preservation award available to the C4 and later group.

Why?

I believe it was addressed in a previous Restorer (hint) but in a nutshell the C4 and later cars are lasting longer and people are caring for them differently. They cost more initially and generally were not "run hard and put away wet" nearly as much as the C1-to-mid-C3 years were. As a result there are a lot of them that would qualify just on the unrestored designation. So, to be sure that only the best receive the award, the McLellan qualification was added.

[Kevin G.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

As I understand the prerequisites for these awards the Bowtie does not require any previous Flight award. Yet the Crossed Flags requires not just a Flight award, but a prior Mclellan/Hill award.

If the above is correct, why are C4s required to obtain the highest "as delivered" award before it can be considered for the unrestored award, unlike any previous Corvette?

EDIT ADD: I think I found the answer to my own question, since Bowtie allows any Vette 20 years or older C4s do/can qualify, and thus don't need to go the Crossed Flags route to get an unrestored award. I would've simply deleted the question but I can't figure out how.

Both my cars had to be flight judged first. At least third flight, judged for originality only optional, with a signed waiver.

[Pat M.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

Thanks for the clarification guys. Boy, I had just about everything wrong, huh?

I guess I was confused by the awards page that says that Bowtie is available to cars 20 years and older, which from today's date would include some C4s. It also does not say a previous award is required, unlike the CF award description.

I guess I can understand the rationale for the difference, but that's quite a bit more burdensome on C4 and later owners. I believe they'll have to go to 5 meets (3 for Mclellan, 2 for CF assuming there is a Team Leader "check off" first) to get an unrestored award. And of course one of those 5 will include the dreaded PV.

[Mark E.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

I'm trying to understand the distinction between Bowtie and Crossed Flags. I found this thread and also compared the description of each award from the NCRS website; see below. I highlighted the differences with bold underlined italics.

From this comparison, it looks like the only differences between these awards are:

- Bowtie is for 20+ years old cars (currently 1953 thru 95 or maybe 96); Crossed Flags is for 1984-92 cars

- Bowtie requires an 80 to 85% pass; Crossed Flags requires a 90% pass

- A McLellan Mark of Excellence is required for a Crossed Flags award. (A McLellan requires a 97% pass so I'm unclear how this relates to the 90% pass requirement for Crossed Flags...?)

Is this correct?

EDIT: Crossed Flags requires a McLellan, but Bowtie doesn't have a prerequisite award?

Thanks guys!

Mark

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NCRS - CHEVROLET BOWTIE Award [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Mark\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\c lip_image002.jpg[/IMG]

This award was created by the National Corvette Restorers Society in 1992. The Bowtie award recognizes the un-restored Corvette and encourages the owner to retain and display the car in its present condition for the enjoyment and continuing educational benefit of our membership. The award is earned only at a National Convention by un-restored cars successfully judged and voted to be historically and educationally significant in four areas (Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis). This award is available to any model year currently judged by NCRS which was manufactured 20 or more years ago. [My note: This implies Bowtie is currently for 1953 thru 95 or 96 cars?] Regardless of change in ownership or judging result the car may never be presented for judging again. The judged section requires an 80 to 85% pass with the following standard "Does the item, part, fabric, plating or coating appear to actually be that which was specifically installed or applied on this car at the time of manufacture". If this is successfully passed the vote with the following standard "Does the area judged display significant educational and historical value which should be preserved in its present condition" is taken. Passing both sections in all four areas earns the NCRS - Chevrolet Bowtie award. Only 287 Corvettes have received this prestigious award.

NCRS - CHEVROLET CROSSED FLAGS Award [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Mark\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\c lip_image002.jpg[/IMG]

This award was created by the National Corvette Restorers Society in 2006. The NCRS Chevrolet Crossed Flags Award is intended to recognize exceptional original, un-restored cars and encourage the owners to retain and display the car in its present condition. The NCRS Chevrolet Crossed Flags award is earned only at a National Convention by un-restored cars successfully judged and voted to be historically and educationally significant in four areas (Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis). This award is available to 1984 and newer Corvettes currently judged by NCRS that have received an NCRS McLellan Mark of Excellence award. [My note: McLellan award is for 1975-92, so this implies Crossed Flags is for 1984-92 cars?] Regardless of change in ownership or judging result the car may never be presented for judging again. The judged section requires a 90% pass with the following standard “Does the item, part, fabric, plating or coating appear to actually be that which was specifically installed or applied on this car at the time of manufacture”. If this is successfully passed the vote with the following standard “Does the area judged display significant educational and historical value which should be preserved in its present condition” is taken. Passing both sections in all four areas earns the NCRS - Chevrolet Crossed Flags award. Only 35 Corvettes have received this award.

[Reba W.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

I believe that the statement on the website about 20+ years for a Bowtie Award needs updating. The current Judging Reference Manual states that Bowtie judging is for 1953-82 models.

[Don H.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

Thanks to those who sorted this one out.

[Mark E.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

I'm not sure what happened to this thread. The listing says it was moved, but it's still here...

I'm still not clear about these two awards. Reba suggests that the Bowtie description is out-dated, and should state it's for 53-82 cars. But are all of these cars really eligible for Bowtie? Isn't a Flight, Duntov or McLellan a prerequisite?

And I'm confused about the cars eligible for Crossed Flags. Its description first states 84 and newer cars, yet it also states a McLellan award as a prerequisite, which is for 75-92 cars. So what about 93-96? C5?

[Don H.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

Mark,

I moved this question to the Help board, but decided that it should stay up in the tech board since it relates to differences in achievement award prerequisites. So, I moved it back.

the short answer to your question is that Bowtie awards apply to 53-82 cars and no previous Duntov award is required (many Bowtie award cars do not run), and Crossed Flags seems to apply to 84- 92 cars that have previously received a McLellan Mark of Excellence award.

Someone else will have to answer for you whether the Crossed Flags award program extends into the 93 to 99 car era that we are into now, which are cars that would be competing for a Hill Mark of Excellence award before they could be considered for a Crossed Flags award.

I have dropped a note to the IT administrators to look into updating the descriptions of these awards on the website. Since this is a low priority item, don't look for any change real soon. In the short term, you could drop a note to your chapter judging chair to get the answer for you regarding eligibility of 93-99 cars for Crossed Flags awards or not. Or, it is likely that a judging chairperson reading this thread will know the answer and will post it here.

[Mark E.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

Thanks Don.

I'm asking all of these dumb questions because I'm considering looking for a nice C4 to take to NCRS events. I want to understand the possible awards these cars go through- Flight, McLellen, Hill, Crossed Flags, etc. I'm wondering if 84-92 are eligible for Flight, McLellen and Crossed Flags, while 93-96 are eligible for Flight, Hill, Crossed Flags...

Your comment is interesting about Bowtie cars that don't run, and therefore don't have a Duntov or McLellen.

Does this also mean that a C4 which doesn't run could earn a Crossed Flags?

Or is the bar is higher for Crossed Flags compared to Bowtie since a McLellen (or presumably, a Hill for later cars?) is required, meaning the cars must run and pass PV?

[David H.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

Mark-Of-Excellence Awards (Judging Reference Manual 8th edition page 42): Duntov 1953-1974, McLellan 1975-1992, Hill 1993-1996

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Star and Bowtie Award for Preservation Excellence (Judging Reference Manual 8th edition pages 45-51): Model years 1953 through 1982. At a prior National or Regional event car is evaluated as a Star/Bowtie candidate (during Flight judging or Bowtie sign-off by Team Leader). Star/Bowtie does NOT evaluate Operations. Passing Score - Interior: 85%, Exterior 85%, Mechanical: 80%, Chassis: 80% with Age Factor Adjustment. Only sections with a passing score will be voted on by the area team/team leader. Car can earn a NCRS One, Two, or Three Star Award. If all four areas are successfully judged and approved the car qualifies for the NCRS Bowtie Award. A vehicle can earn a fifth star by subsequent display at judging meets. (Above is only a summary)

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Crossed-Flags Award for Preservation Excellence (Judging Reference Manual 8th edition pages 51-56): Model years 1984 and newer. Vehicle must have attained a prior Mark-of-Excellence Award. Crossed-Flags sign-off/invitation inspection at the time of Mark-of-Excellence judging. Cars not judged within the preceding year must have a Regional flight judging and re-signoff. Crossed-Flags judging does NOT evaluate Operations. Passing Score - Interior: 90%, Exterior 90%, Mechanical: 90%, Chassis: 90% (No age adjustment). The entire team reviews and discuss each individual car before voting. All four areas must receive favorable votes to qualify for a Crossed-Flags Award. There is no award for less than four favorable votes. A Five Star Crossed-Flags Award can be achieved by subsequent display at judging events. (Above is only a summary)

[Mark E.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

Thanks David, that clears it up a lot.

It looks like the award summaries on the website need to be updated/corrected. Hence the initial confusion on my part.

Best,

[Paul M.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

1993-1996 are also part of the Cross-Flags. They omitted Hill Award in the requirements. The Cross-Flags Award is vote only and the Head Judge (Tom Barr) will talk to you after all judging is completed. I have a '96 CE that was just awarded the Hill Award at the Denver Nationals and Tom Barr spoke to me about having my car judged for Cross-Flags. You have 3 calendar years from receiving your TopFlight/ Hill Award to have this done. I hope that answers any questions about Cross-Flags Award.

[Mark E.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

Thanks Paul. And congratulations with your Hill Award!! And good luck with the Cross Flags.

Did you drive your '96 to National? How far?

[Paul M.]

Re: Bowtie Requirements vs Crossed Flags Requirements

No Mark I live in Tampa,fl. I used Passport Auto Transport and they were great. The car has 12,000 miles on it, so it's a garage queen.