How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

[Dan P.]

I recently purchased a block that was cast on THE SAME DAY as the original block installed by St. Louis in my '70. It's an 010 hi-nickel block, casting date E190 (cast May 19, 1970, installed in a July 1 build car). The plan is that i'll keep the original engine on a stand and use the "new" block for a 100% cosmetically correct but "warmed-up" resto engine.


Interesting to note that the date tag on both blocks have identical anomalies in number/letter position. It appears that the tags were made on the same die - as if the tags were made on one of those Dymo press-type guns (but with steel tape).

So what are the odds I was able to find a block cast the same day?

Looking fwd to hearing from those in the know...

[William C.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Technicaly Flint didn't cast any, they were cast at a foundry in Saginaw about 40-50 miles away, and Trucked from saginaw to the flint engine plant. As the process was last-in, first out, same day engines are not really unusual.

[Michael W.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

If casting rate = ass'y rate, I think John Hinckley has mentioned that approx 300 engines per hour on a two shift day was typical.

Not really answering your question, but I thought there was a discussion recently that suggested the 010/020 markings on a 3970010 block did not necessarily designate high nickel or tin.

[Terry M.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

I am thinking those shifts were 10 hours long also. Note the ten dots on the casting "clock" that gives time of pour. So the foundry worked for 20 hours each day and there was 4 hours for maintenance.

[Dan P.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Ah yes, Saginaw casting to Flint assy, that's right... thanks for the reminder.

So I suspect that the through-put of the Saginaw casting plant for these castings was roughly the same as the Flint assy plant?

Just for grins, I think I'll take pics of the casting clocks and other #'s to see if anyone can discern the difference between the two casting's manufacturing times/shifts.

Also, the resto block has "F433" stamped by hand in individual characters on the front side of the fuel pump boss. The characters look like typical Flint characters used on stamp pads. Anyone know what this stamping designates?

[John H.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

So I suspect that the through-put of the Saginaw casting plant for these castings was roughly the same as the Flint assy plant?

Dan -

Saginaw cast the parts for (and Flint V-8 produced) about 5500 engines per day; when you count all the different raw castings Saginaw supplied to Flint V-8, it was around 55,000 iron castings every single day.

[Ridge K.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

I am thinking those shifts were 10 hours long also. Note the ten dots on the casting "clock" that gives time of pour. So the foundry worked for 20 hours each day and there was 4 hours for maintenance.

Terry, seems like I remember a discussion of the St.Louis assembly plant having a four hour idle "union rule", .....at one one point in time.

[John H.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Terry, seems like I remember a discussion of the St.Louis assembly plant having a four hour idle "union rule", .....at one one point in time.

Ridge -

Terry's talking about the Saginaw Foundry, not the St. Louis assembly plant; foundry operating patterns were very different due to the nature of their operations and facilities.

I worked at St. Louis, and never heard of a "four-hour-idle" union rule.

[Terry M.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Back when I worked in a metallurgy lab -- right next to the experimental foundry -- I worked with a lot of people who had spent considerable time in foundries in both Europe and the USA. Foundries are brutal places to work in. They are better today than back when, but they are still hotter than Hades in the summer and colder than the Arctic in winter.

Foundries have to keep the furnaces hot (2200 degrees F) 24/7 and they begin pouring metal in the dark hours of the morning. It is not uncommon for the first shift to start at 3 or 4 AM. I think they cook the metal for something like 6 or 8 hours. Mark Gorney could fill in those kinds of details.

In Europe back in the day it was common for foundry workers to stay hydrated with beer provided by the employer. That has probably changed today, but I don't know for sure.

[Jim L.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Saginaw cast the parts for (and Flint V-8 produced) about 5500 engines per day; when you count all the different raw castings Saginaw supplied to Flint V-8, it was around 55,000 iron castings every single day.

John,

Those numbers are just mind numbing.

Jim

[Ridge K.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Ridge -

Terry's talking about the Saginaw Foundry, not the St. Louis assembly plant; foundry operating patterns were very different due to the nature of their operations and facilities.

I worked at St. Louis, and never heard of a "four-hour-idle" union rule.

Thanks, John.

I knew the discussion was about the foundry, but thought perhaps the same "rule" I had heard of... applied. I also made a huge assumption that the foundry was likewise staffed with unionized workers.

As it turned out, thanks to your clarification, that four hour rule was just another urban myth ... now debunked.

Ridge

[Ray G.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Back when I worked in a metallurgy lab -- right next to the experimental foundry -- I worked with a lot of people who had spent considerable time in foundries in both Europe and the USA. Foundries are brutal places to work in. They are better today than back when, but they are still hotter than Hades in the summer and colder than the Arctic in winter.

Foundries have to keep the furnaces hot (2200 degrees F) 24/7 and they begin pouring metal in the dark hours of the morning. It is not uncommon for the first shift to start at 3 or 4 AM. I think they cook the metal for something like 6 or 8 hours. Mark Gorney could fill in those kinds of details.

In Europe back in the day it was common for foundry workers to stay hydrated with beer provided by the employer. That has probably changed today, but I don't know for sure.

Hello Terry;
Worked at a company w/ a foundry, while in College, during the period.
Can confirm the use of beer to hydrate the workers. Don't think it was employer supplied. Was told the human body absorbed the liquid better w/ slight alcohol content. Probably a wives tale perpetuated by the employees.
The experience gave me incentive to study harder and not work there for the rest of my life.
Ray

[John H.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Foundries are brutal places to work in. They are better today than back when, but they are still hotter than Hades in the summer and colder than the Arctic in winter.

How'd you like this guy's job pouring 2600*F iron in August? Yup, the Saginaw Foundry, in 1950.

[Tom P.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

Were the parts transported from Saginaw to Flint by truck or by rail (I have no clue, since I've never been in the area)?

[Kenneth L.]

Re: How many blocks did Flint cast in a day?

When I Top Flighted a '78 Pace Car back in 2005, one of the judges (who was biased since he had a P.O.S. Pace Car himself, and envied my 63 miles, no previous owner p.c.) tried to tell me that my block wasn't original.

After I controlled the urge to insert him into my tail pipe (and I Top Flighted in spite of his opinion), I walked over to Dave McClellan, who was at the NCRS event in Atlantic City. I asked him if it was possible for my block to have been dated outside of the (3 month?) period that NCRS considers acceptable, prior to the build date of the car.

Mr. McClellan told me that it certainly was acceptable that a 350 block could be laying around, and installed at a later time, because "they were all over the place" (in his words) in multiple locations back then. He mentioned that Testing and Engineering would also take blocks for quality control, and place them back in inventory, which would cause the engine block to be dated far earlier than the build date of the Corvette. This "expert" opinion satisfied me.