1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

[George D.]

I have a question concerning Date Codes on a set of four K-H knock-offs. The wheels are on a 1965. The current owner belives the original owner had the wheels installed by the dealer. They have the K-H logo, the D-49985, and the "A" in the triangle. The set is complete with the original adpters, lug nuts, hammer, spinners, and 1965 chrome cones. The wheels are in good survivor shape BUT the Date Codes have me confused. One is dated 6-22-65 which would make it a late 1965/early 1966 model year factory fit wheel. But the other three have strange codes. Two are coded DJ18 and the third one is coded EJ18. Are these over the counter/dealer installed original, but not factory fit, wheels? Does DJ18/EJ18 mean anything to anybody?

Thanks,

[Wayne M.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

I have a question concerning Date Codes on a set of four K-H knock-offs. ..... the Date Codes have me confused. One is dated 6-22-65 which would make it a late 1965/early 1966 model year factory fit wheel. But the other three have strange codes. Two are coded DJ18 and the third one is coded EJ18. Are these over the counter/dealer installed original, but not factory fit, wheels? ...,

George -- here's a link to an eBay set of five with similar 6-xx-65 dates. I have a set of five '66s (Feb car) with similar date format, all within a few days of each other.

I've seen some weird stampings, and I don't know how to de-code those you describe. Probably has something to do with the fact that most KO components were still serviced until the mid-70s, and KH was probably called upon to run another batch for service inventory. That's my guess .

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200498636414&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[George D.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

1966 Corvette Knock Off Wheels




Wayne:

Thanks for the quick reply AND the eBay link!

I agree with you. These are most probably "over the counter" wheels and I guessing that they were cast in 1968 probably a month apart.

[Mike Z.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

George-
I have restored several sets of OEM K-O wheels and agree the dates are "interesting".
What I have come to is: prior to Jan 65, the "ink" stamp seems to have been used, as I have never seen or heard of a "hard" stamp with a 64 year in the stamp. I have duplicated the "ink" stamps for my restored wheels.
Now, what I typically see on 65 wheels is:
an Alpha character, space, number (1 or 2 digit), space, number (1 or 2 digit), space, and finally 65.
We all agree the 65 is the year. The number(s) right before the year, all seem to agree is the day of the month.
Wayne and I seem to disagree (this topic has surfaced previously) on what designates the month. The alpha character, I believe is the month-I have seen A-H so far. If it were for the shift, mold, etc. why use A-H-to many characters.
The first number (s) after the alpha and before the day, I believe has to do with either hour, inspection number, mold number or something along that line, as I have seen everything from 1-21. If it were month, I don't understand the 21 I have seen on several I have personally seen. I have also seen other 65 wheels that have a similar stamping with an alpha, but no number between the alpha and the day, then year-this strengthens my belief in the alpha as the month.
Now, in 66 it somewhat followed the second version I saw of 65 wheels: alpha for month, day (1 or 2 characters), and finally the year. I have also seen the alpha and a day, but no year-I have read, K-H knew OEM would no longer offer the true K-O wheel, so the year was no longer necessary.
I have seen several wheels with the "J" as a second character, (very few have, but I have seen the "J" as a single character, but if so, I would read a single "J" as a September date), with a day and sometime the year after. So, was the first alpha the month, the "J" used instead of the number in 65 for mold, inspector or whatever? Most of "J" second character wheels I have seen do not have the year. My thought was possible a "continuation" wheel for service purposes.
Then there is the wheel with a 1968: smaller font hard stamp, and thinner thickness on the vanes on the front, similar to many of the reproductions-strange. All other characteristics are similar to OEM 64-66 wheels.
So, that is my two cents worth and hope it generates more feedback, as I also am somewhat confused with all the different configurations of stamps I see on these wheels.

Mike Zamora
#12455

[Jack H.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

This brings up another minor 'mystery'...

According to Noland Adams, the basic KH KO wheel changed from PN 3852552 to 3868768 on AIM date 2/22/65. That's WELL into the '65 model year build cycle. The first PN is the SAME as that used in the '64 model year where we know rubber ink stamp dating was used. But, the 'mystery' deepens.

The '64 version of the KO didn't have accent paint in the center + on the sides of the 'spokes'. I've never heard of an early '65 KO equipped Corvette whose wheels were NOT accent painted.

So, who did the accent painting (Chevy or KH) on the initially supplied '65 KO wheels? I'll bet there was some residual inventory at St. Louis when the model year changed.

Plus, what the heck did the service guys do for that approximately 6.5 month period when a customer bought an over-the-counter wheel? With BOTH the '64 and '65 versions of the wheels having the SAME part number and being cosmetically different, it must have been FUN!

[George D.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

Mike and Jack:

Thank you very much for your input. Yes it is rather confusing. Still leaves us with the question what is a DJ18 and EJ18 wheel? Is it April 18 and May 18 with no year due to the fact they were built in 1966? And as Mike says what is the J? It can't also be September.

Bottom line is I found another set of five nice original survivor wheels with the original adapters, lug nuts, cones, and spinners with Date Codes between 6/14/65 and 6/25/65 that I bought. Since my L79 Coupe was built in late November 1965 it is entirely reasonable that these could have been installed by the factory if NCRS considers the six month production window on these date coded parts.

[Dave B.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

George,
My '66 L79 came with knock offs according to the guy at the dealership who placed the order, and here are the date codes I have.

B 19 66
A 18 66
B 1 466
A 12 30
A 1 3 66

As you can see, the number spacing is different, and one of them has a date that makes no sense. The car is a Mar 4th build, so the four Jan 66 wheels track, but not the 12 30. Only thing I can think of is that one of the previous owners had to replace one, and got a service replacement. Can't confirm that unfortunately.
regards,
Dave

[Mike Z.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

Jack-interesting feedback-I also wondered about the paint when there is only one P/N #3868768 shown for 64-65, there is a previous P/N #3862552 for I assume an early-mid 64 (No Dates for the change in P/N), and then the 66 wheel P/N #3877236.

So, you are correct, who applied the paint and why no different part number? The mystery continues.

Dave-your dates look perfect to me. The A 12 30 is one of those wheels I indicated in 66, they sometimes (more toward the later run), did not use the year. The reason for it being off a little from the others: my understanding, it was not uncommon for the 4 ground wheels to be grabbed from inventory at one time, then they went back later for the spare. I believe your dates to be what I would expect or at least within reason of what practice seemed to be back in the day.

In any event all comments and examples are re-enforcing that; the alpha character was the month. I still say the "J" second character was a continuance wheel for service inventory. I have seen a single "J" with nothing in front of it that I would read as September, with a 65 year stamped.

Mike Zamora
#12455

[Wayne M.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

....Now, what I typically see on 65 wheels is:
an Alpha character, space, number (1 or 2 digit), space, number (1 or 2 digit), space, and finally 65.
We all agree the 65 is the year. The number(s) right before the year, all seem to agree is the day of the month.
Wayne and I seem to disagree (this topic has surfaced previously) on what designates the month. The alpha character, I believe is the month-I have seen A-H so far. If it were for the shift, mold, etc. why use A-H-to many characters.
The first number (s) after the alpha and before the day, I believe has to do with either hour, inspection number, mold number or something along that line, as I have seen everything from 1-21. If it were month, I don't understand the 21 .....

I'm surprised that with all the original sets out there, that we're not getting more response to this thread.

Mike -- If I'm the Wayne you're referring to, I don't think we have a disagreement, as I'm basing my observations entirely on the set of five I have from '66 # 13162 (90% sure it's this car). If so, this car was produced Feb 8th. You've seen a way more KO's than me.

Two of my five are B_1_3_66 and the other three are B_1_4_66. (pic of one below). I wish I'd paid more attention to the set of four off a '65 that I had in the mid-70s, or the set of four off a '64 (owned mid-80s) with an ink stamp on one of them .

[David C.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

The dates for wheels on the car aren't judged, only originality in appearance. I don't remeber if the spare date is judged

[George D.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

I understand but if you're going for originality on a survivor then it's a importrant - or at least important to me.

[Dave B.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

Jack-interesting feedback-I also wondered about the paint when there is only one P/N #3868768 shown for 64-65, there is a previous P/N #3862552 for I assume an early-mid 64 (No Dates for the change in P/N), and then the 66 wheel P/N #3877236.

So, you are correct, who applied the paint and why no different part number? The mystery continues.

Dave-your dates look perfect to me. The A 12 30 is one of those wheels I indicated in 66, they sometimes (more toward the later run), did not use the year. The reason for it being off a little from the others: my understanding, it was not uncommon for the 4 ground wheels to be grabbed from inventory at one time, then they went back later for the spare. I believe your dates to be what I would expect or at least within reason of what practice seemed to be back in the day.

In any event all comments and examples are re-enforcing that; the alpha character was the month. I still say the "J" second character was a continuance wheel for service inventory. I have seen a single "J" with nothing in front of it that I would read as September, with a 65 year stamped.

Mike Zamora
#12455

Mike, Thanks for the update on my odd ball wheel. What would you say the date would be then? Assuming the "A" stands for January, would it be January 12th or January 30th? In 1966 the 12th was a Wed and the 30th was a Sunday, so logic would say the 12th. If so, what does the 30 signify?
Interesting!!



Dave

[George D.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

Boy, you guys sure have me confused now.

I just purchased a complete set (wheels, spinners, cones, adapters, and lugs) of "supposed" five original 1966 factory installed wheels that were taken from a wrecked 1966 back in 1970. The owner "claims" (and after talking with him I have no reason to doubt his word) the wheels came off a 1966 that had the P48 option at build. The date codes on the wheels could have been for a very, very late 1965 build or an early build 1966. The dates codes seem to justify that. BUT your explanation of the alpha coding has me really confused now. I have not received the wheels yet but from the pictures he sent me here are the date codes:

B 6 1 65
C 6 11 65
B 6 14 65
B 6 24 65
B 6 28 65

I assumed that these were all built in June 1965 and that the alpha character was not relevant.

Am I mistaken in my reasoning? I find it had to believe that these were build in Feb/March (B/C) 1965 since what would the "6" refer to? Definately not coded that way to indicate for a 1966 model.

[Mike Z.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

Hey guys, this is good stuff. I have indicated my belief in the alpha as the month, but there are examples now surfacing that have strong credence to the first number being the month-so what do you think the alpha represents in your examples?
I Still go back to, what is the alpha? Again, I have seen several A,B,C,D,E,F,& H. Further, I have seen several first numbers as high as 21. Also, several with only an Alpha, one set of date numbers (assume the day) and a year i.e., A_14_66.
Help me out here. I have 4 sets in stock, in various stages of restoration:
#1: A3_30_66, A_14_66, A_3_2_66, A_25_66, A_25_66 (2 the same)
#2: A7_23_65, B12_3_65 (2), B22565 (2 no spaces)
#3: A3_30_66, A_12_1 (2 no yr), 12_1 (no alpha or yr), A_12_21__6
#4: NO dates, but had paint-assume early 65, prior to Jan 65.
All sets were purchased as sets or a min of 4 wheels and I match a 5th on 1 set.
So, what do you think? Based on the different configurations, the more common link to me is month is alpha, unless you see something I am missing-I encourage discussion and thoughts.
Thanks, Mike Zamora
#12455

[Wayne M.]

Re: 1965-66 Knock-Off Date Codes

Hey guys, this is good stuff. I have indicated my belief in the alpha as the month, but there are examples now surfacing that have strong credence to the first number being the month-so what do you think the alpha represents in your examples?
I Still go back to, what is the alpha? .................
....................... So, what do you think? Based on the different configurations, the more common link to me is month is alpha, unless you see something I am missing-I encourage discussion and thoughts ...

Mike -- here's the other four of my set (5th wheel is found above, in thread post #9).

Sometimes the first digit is real close to the 2nd, inviting the interpretation that it's (say) 13, rather than 1_3. Also, I offer that sometimes the missing two year digits at the end might be due to the straight gang stamp hitting the compound curve of the wheel casting (depending on angle of strike). Notice on some of my others that there's "bounce". Just some thoughts .