1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wheel

[Scott S.]

Another mystery in a restoration full of surprises. Car is a '67 coupe, January 11, 1967 build date. I have the tank sticker, but the Zone & Dealer Code are not quite legible, so I don't know (yet) where this car originated. At the moment, I'm trying to figure out why this car has what appears to be a very old (possibly original?) spare tire that says "MADE in CANADA" in the rubber near the rim. In another recent thread ("Tire dating revisited", May 14, 2010) it was mentioned that the DOT codes did not appear until 1969, but did that apply to tires made in Canada as well?


The Spare Tire (double white-wall, mounted inboard)
G78-15 Firestone
Load Range B
SUP - R - BELT
Deluxe Champion
Belted

V-1 (in an oval) followed by "DOT 155"

Around the wheel-edge:
G78-15 Replaces 8.15-15 May Load 1620 LBS. at 32 PSI MAX. PRESS.
(8.25-15 is directly below 8.15-15)

MADE IN CANADA

0-38 UP-1 BD-47044-8 TUBELESS (the "UP-1" might be "UR-1")

TREAD 4 PLIES - 2 PLIES Polyester Plus 2 PLIES Fiberglass Sidewall- 2 PLIES Polyester

Imprint of "309" over "309" inspection stamp?



I'm looking forward to comments and observations on this one,

Scott


Inner sidewall detail pictures of markings described above:

[Scott S.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

The Judging Guide (4th edition, p. 67) says Firestone Deluxe Champion tires are one of the original equipment possibilities, says there should be no "DOT" markings, but doesn't say anything about tires made in Canada.


The JG talks about "reproduction tires" (p. 67) having the DOT marking, but this tire has been in the spare tire tub since at least 1976 when my Dad bought this car, so this is not a "reproduction tire" in the current sense of the word "reproduction".


Large sidewall brand & trademarks:

Picture 1) SUP - R - BELT
Picture 2) Deluxe Champion
Picture 3) G78-15
Picture 4) BELTED

[Scott S.]

1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wheel

The tire tub is original, with a tub date stamp of January 6 1967 and a lid/cover date of 12 01 66 (different date format than the tub, but stamped in white paint just like the tub, down where the "V" support bars meet, due to location, it had to be stamped before the support bars were riveted to the lid/cover).

The spare tire itself has a mold-line right down the center of the tread, which certainly would have worn off immediately if this tire had ever been driven on.


Picture 1 - Whole tire / wheel (back)
Picture 2 - Whole tire / wheel (front)
Picture 3 - Tire tread
Picture 4 - Tire tread close up, raised centerline

[Scott S.]

1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wheel

The spare wheel

The spare wheel has all 3 expected outer markings (GM, KH and DC). The "G" in "GM" is broken. According to Wendel Hans' article (Winter 2010 Restorer): "Sometime in late 1966, the G broke and Kelsey Hayes kept using the stamp for several months of production, as DOT did not enforce repair of broken stamps. Looking like a bad 6..." (p. 18)

The KH stamp is full and clear, but the "DC" broadcast code stamp by the valve stem hole has only about three-quarters of the "C" in "DC". I'm looking forward to examining (and photographing) the dates of all five wheels when the tires are replaced. I don't think this tire was ever driven on, is there a way to tell from the pictures whether this wheel has ever been mounted (e.g., from looking at the mounting holes?)

The word "Vette" in yellow was written when the spare was removed from the car.


The spare tire Valve Stem Cap
The valve stem cap was on the spare tire, it is black with a smooth top with approximately 36 vertical ribs. There is a "slash" in the top near the edge, which appears to be a careless tool-mark (like might happen when trying to get a stuck valve cap off with a pliers), it looks very much like the mark on the valve cap in Wendel Hans' article (bottom right, page 19, Winter 2010 Restorer).



Picture 1 - wheel front, "KH" and broken "G" in "GM"
Picture 2 - wheel front, partial "C" in "DC"
Picture 3 - back of wheel (mounting holes show no gouging)
Picture 4 - valve stem cap

[Timothy B.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

Scott, I can't comment on the tire except to say the size is not correct for any 67 Corvette.

On the rim, the DC looks like small stamps but that may be my morning eyes. The rim should be black primered with silver on the outside.

Double check the offset on the rim to be sure it's Corvette, I believe it should be 1/16" positive. Info in archives on procedure, it only takes a minute..

[Scott S.]

1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wheel

Scott, I can't comment on the tire except to say the size is not correct for any 67 Corvette.

On the rim, the DC looks like small stamps but that may be my morning eyes. The rim should be black primered with silver on the outside.

Double check the offset on the rim to be sure it's Corvette, I believe it should be 1/16" positive. Info in archives on procedure, it only takes a minute..

Hi Tim,

According to the JG the tire is supposed to be 7.75 x 15, or service replacements could be F78-15 (if bias construction). This spare tire is an 8.15 x 15 and labeled G78-15, made in Canada, with "PLIES" instead of "PLY". I don't know where this car was originally sold, and I don't know why it would have a "Made in Canada" spare tire unless this car might have originally been sold in Canada, or spent time in Canada, and I don't know what Chevy dealerships may have done in Canada.

A few more data points to consider:

"ALL TIRES OF SAME SIZE & PLY RATING FURNISHED SHALL BE OF SAME MAKE." (diagram, Adams, p. 396)
Does this mean all 5 tires should be the same, even though the JG says to judge road tires separately from spare tires? This spare was mounted with the double-whitewall inward, which is a full deduct according to the JG.

According to Wendel Hans' article in Winter 2010 Restorer, the following two identifiers seem to suggest that this is a correct late 1966 wheel for a January 11, 1967 car:

1. "Sometime in late 1966, the G broke and Kelsey Hayes kept using the stamp for several months of production..." (p. 18)

2. In reference to the "DC" stamp: "Wheels manufactured in November and December 1966 have a broken C, which is barely legible or not at all." (p. 19)

If this wheel had a small "DC" stamp, it appears that there should be a date nearby, but there is not any date on the outside of this wheel:
"The small DC shows up with a date code stamped at the valve stem. These are Corvette service replacement wheels made after December 1967 or possibly 1968 Camaro Z28 15 x 6 wheels." (p. 19)


~~~~~~~~~~
I attached pictures of the tire tub bolts, they have the welded nut. It's hard to get the angle right when holding the tape measure with my left hand out of camera range and shooting the picture with my right hand. The long bolts are actually 9 3/8" long, and the shorter bolt is 7 1/8" long. According to the JG, the shorter lock-bolt should be 8" if the car was ordered with wider tires (redlines). I don't know the actual width of redlines, so I don't know how they compare to an 8.15 x 15 tire.
~~~~~~~~~~


As I was looking for tire pictures in the Adams and Dobbins books, I found a 1967 tank sticker example (Adams, p. 45), and I noticed that there should be a description of the tires plainly visible under the line for transmission on my tank sticker, but mine is blank in that area. My tank sticker (this is a coupe) is in bad shape, but based on the visible parts, I was able to determine the following, with blank spaces representing missing letters:

Trim: BLACK TRIM
Engine: 350 V8 T _ _ B _ FIRE
Air Cond: 4 S_ASON AI_ CON_
Transistor Ign: (blank)
Axle: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ CT AXLE 370R
Transmission: _ _ _ _ _L RATIO TRAN
Tires: (blank, but there should be something visible all the way to the "T" in "TRAN" in the line above, according to the example in Adams, p. 45)
Conv. Top: (blank)
Aux. Top: (blank)
Radio: _ _ _ _ _ FM RADIO
Comfort & Con.: paper is missing


Could be this is one of the rare tire-delete cars... you don't hear much about those

[Michael W.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

Hi Tim,

According to the JG the tire is supposed to be 7.75 x 15, or service replacements could be F78-15 (if bias construction). This spare tire is an 8.15 x 15 and labeled G78-15, made in Canada, with "PLIES" instead of "PLY". I don't know where this car was originally sold, and I don't know why it would have a "Made in Canada" spare tire unless this car might have originally been sold in Canada, or spent time in Canada, and I don't know what Chevy dealerships may have done in Canada.

Why couldn't it simply be a case of an (incorrect) replacement tire that ended up in the spare tire position? Corvettes sold in Canada were no different with respect to tires than those sold in the US.

Canadian made tires are sold in the US no different than US made tires are sold in Canada. Guessing as to what the previous owner did with the car and why in the first 9 years of it's life could prove to be pretty frustrating and futile.

[Scott S.]

1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wheel

The rim should be black primered with silver on the outside.

Double check the offset on the rim to be sure it's Corvette, I believe it should be 1/16" positive. Info in archives on procedure, it only takes a minute..

The spare is with the body at another location. I will check the offset of the spare wheel the next time I'm there. It looks like there is a little bit of black paint around the bolt-holes and around the center hole in the close-up picture of the backside, I'll wash the dirt off next time to get a better look.

[Scott S.]

1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wheel

Why couldn't it simply be a case of an (incorrect) replacement tire that ended up in the spare tire position? Corvettes sold in Canada were no different with respect to tires than those sold in the US.

Canadian made tires are sold in the US no different than US made tires are sold in Canada. Guessing as to what the previous owner did with the car and why in the first 9 years of it's life could prove to be pretty frustrating and futile.

Thanks for the reply Michael, I wasn't sure if there was a good reason why a Canadian tire would be on a car in the U.S. back in the late 60s to early 70s. I was hoping the Canadian spare tire might be a clue to the car's origin, because if I understand correctly, Canada keeps original buyer records.

[Michael W.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

Why not contact GM Canada

http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage

and ask?

[John H.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

Scott -

The wheel looks fine. Don't agonize over the tire - it never came on a Corvette - some previous owner had it installed when he bought a set of tires.

[Scott S.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

Why not contact GM Canada

http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage

and ask?

Thanks for the link Michael, it's a long shot, but it's worth checking, just to be sure.

[Scott S.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

Scott -

The wheel looks fine. Don't agonize over the tire - it never came on a Corvette - some previous owner had it installed when he bought a set of tires.

Thanks for the reply John. It was a long shot, but in case the spare tire might have been a clue to the car's origin, I wanted to explore the possibility. I'll check with GM Canada just to be sure, then back to the drawing board.

Still good to learn about the wheel though

[Ara G.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

Scott,
I found the exact same tire in the spare carrier in my 67 Coupe with an engine assembly of Dec 1966. It was a California car, not a Canada car. I sent pics of my tire to some guys who know WAYYY more than I and they all agreed that it was NOT an original tire but an odd ball.....Not sure if this helps you or further confuses you...Figured I would let you know. I still have the tire if you need/want any info off it. Good luck. ARA

[Peter L.]

Re: 1967 Firestone spare tire original? Made in CANADA? - Broken "G" in 'GM' on KH wh

As interesting as this thread is, even if the car was sold originally in Canada why would it have tires made in Canada when the car was made in the US and I trust the tire were on the car when it was shipped to Canada for sale? Pete