To Restore or not to Restore?
I have a 70 350-350hp convertible, which I purchased from the original owner. The car was owned and driven buy a woman, and is in very good condition. The items that I have found to be replaced are the top, front windshield, tires, some hoses, and the gas tank. Everything else is original and correct. The main problem is a frame that is rotted out severely in the rear kickup area, on both sides. In all likely hood, I will be replacing the frame. My thinking is that by doing this, the car will no longer be original enough for survivor judging. But I almost hate to restore this car, because it is overall very nice. I would appreciate some thoughts on what direction to take on this. Thanks, Mark Also Happy 4th of July to all!
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
First, understand that in the Corvette hobby, the term "Survivor" is a trademark of Bloomington Gold, not NCRS. The comparable term in NCRS is "Star" or "Bowtie" Award. If I understand the wording in the Judging Reference Manual, you could only ignore the condition of the frame if it had enough educational benefit to over-ride the poor condition. This is just my take on the reading of the manual.
I noted that under "Chassis Area Voting", that the Star/Bowtie judges are asked to be less critical in regard to chassis condition. If I understand the stated seriousness of the rusted frame would be a safety issue, I believe that as the car's current "caretaker", you are obligated to repair the area in question. Can't the "kickup area" be repaired without replacing the entire frame? -Clark -
Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Looking at the frame from underneath, the corner of the kickup area is pretty well gone. It would require cutting the area out, and replacing. If I do that, the repair will be obvious. Replacing with a solid used complete frame, I wouldn't have that problem. MarkComment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Mark, Sounds like a great find! Congrats!!!
In my opinion because you have a very original example, the 2nd owner, potentially much documentation, etc, etc, this is what I would do if it was mine.....
Seeing you are planning to take the body off no matter what, I would wait until then to asses the final decision. IMO, you would be better off with the original frame if you are going through all of that work and considering having it judged in the future. When done you would have the same car throughout.
The kickup can be repaired. It's could be a substantial amount of work, but not impossible. There are several threads on another forum showing lots of frame repair techniques. Here is one example. It may not be exactly the same as your repair area but it shows what can be done. I would not make any decisions until you get the body off and can get a clearer view of what you're up against.
Lastly, I guess you really have to decide what you really want to do with the car. Once you take the body off and start repairing/restoring, no chance for Star or Bowtie. Doing that "voids the warranty" so to speak. If you really want a "Star/Bowtie Car", you can't make any changes, just cleaning, etc. It's all in the NCRS Guides. If you want to have fun with the car and restore it(not necessarily synonymous statements
), then maybe a body off and full tilt restoration. You could then go for Flight Judging.
Or of course you could fix the frame, or replace it outright, just put the body back on and leave everything else as it is and consider for yourself that you have a "survivor" to drive around and have fun. However, once you take stuff apart you're likely going to want to repaint this and that, replace a few things, and get "shipwright's disease". I personally know how this happens!
Good Luck!
RichComment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
There are one, two, and three Star awards. Even if the chassis is out, other areas of the car might still earn a star. Any part of a 35-year-old car that has survived (no pun intended) is worthy of preservation, The owner can choose to have only designated sections judged if he/she knows that one or more is ineligible. Before doing something that cannot be undone, why not have the car evaulated at a chapter meet or by knowledgeable judges?Comment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
No. Modern welding equipment is amazing. Even less experienced hobbiests can get seamless results, and an experienced welder can really surprise you. I also think that there are pre-formed repair kits for this area.
Think about this. The frame will have to be repaired/replaced, not only for safety but to support the body and suspension. Since the car is drivable now, why not go through Star/Bowtie judging now, then after you're through with that do either a partial or full restoration.
I will warn you, once you start taking it apart you will probably end up doing a full restoration. Not only will you find many other things that are not original, the condition of things will dictate thier restoration before they're reinstalled. Rich called it "shipwright's disease", but I've always heard it called the "might as wells".
PaulComment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
I agree. Since condition is NOT considered during Star/Bowtie judging, why not take a run at this 'unrestored' car award/recognition category before you tackle any further repairs/improvements?
Any given Corvette can only vie for the award ONCE in its lifetime and it seems this may be your car's 'shot'.
While similar, there are subtle differences between the NCRS Star/Bowtie award and Bloomington's Survivor program. For one, Star/Bowtie looks only at a cars' Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis components. Actual operability of the vehicle is NOT a consideration.
At Bloomington, their motto is 'worn in but not worn out' and Survivor cars are expected to successfully navigate a road course. Hence, there, Operation IS taken into consideration.
Once you start fixing/restoring this/that component of your car, you COULD be closing the door, for all time, to its ability to compete in the Star/Bowtie program... You can always decide to go into a full swing restoration of the vehicle IF it doesn't fare well in Star/Bowtie judging...Comment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Mark,
Sounds like a neat car! Love to see some photo's! Surely you have heard the line "it's only original once".
I would agree to have the car looked at closer before starting any restoration. Keep in mind however that the car would have to be Flight judged first and receive a sign off at a Regional event before going to National Bowtie judging. You could do this in two events but wouldn't be up for Bowtie judging until at least next years National in Novi.
Tough to keep you hands off for over a year
Good luckComment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Hi Mark -- I am doing a complete frame off 72 LS-5 coupe,right done to the bear frame. It can be a long (6+ years for mine) if you do all the work your self. Write me and I can send you some pics and some advice on the project. Good Luck - ReyComment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Hi Mark,
Although I'm a strong believer in "they're only original once" there can be GREAT pleasure in doing a complete restoration of an original car. (The right parts are there just waiting for you).
For me, restoration was the right choice! For you?
Regards,
Alan
71 Coupe, 350/270, 4 speed
Mason Dixon Chapter
Chapter Top Flight October 2011Comment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Thanks for all the replies. I'm very familiar with the restoration process. The car is not drivable now, as the driver side kickup is sagged to the point the driver door is very hard to close. So it would need to be repaired before the car could be taken to any NCRS judging venue. Suggestions? MarkComment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Restore or replace the frame and go for flight judging if you wish. Restore any part you wish as it's your call.Lyle
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
Consider having the car Bowtie judged before you decide to replace the frame.Comment
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Re: To Restore or not to Restore?
great find with the car.......CONGRATULATIONS!
I must say these comments posted are some of the most fair, on the mark I've seen on this somewhat touchy subject.
As others have said, it all boils down to what will make you the happiest with the car. There's obviously pros & cons on both sides.
I absolutely love seeing and admiring a survivor. They are truly a historic work of art. Nothing quite like them.
Having said that, I wanted my own car to be able to cruise down any highway in as close to it's original showroom condition, as humanly possible. There are great experts here with helpful advice, to go in either direction.
Good luck and enjoy the journey.....Good carburetion is fuelish hot air . . .Comment
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