1st engine start at the factory

[Bill I.]

Just wondering.. Let's pick a number say 100. Of that 100 brand new never started engines how many failed? Wondering what the % was back in say 67. Thanks, Bill

[Valeria H.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

Gee Bill,
I would not have thought to ask if any of the new engines did not start off the line if that is what you are asking.
Valeria

[Bill I.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

Right Valeria, how many would not start out of 100. Bill.

[William C.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

Are you talking at the engine plant, or at the car assembly plant? At least in my experience when I visited Car plants often in the eighties, a no-start was a VERY unusual occurance. "never started" at the car plant is something of a misnomer due to the hot start at the engine plant. Same goes for the 60's as the 80's. The plant would expect 100 out of 100 to start, and if they didn't it would usually be something in the car plant build that caused the problem. Engine pulls at car plants were fairly rare.

[Bill I.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

Bill, let's go back to the OP, how many didn't start? If it was at the factory where they were assembled, then that's where the question lies. Bill

[Clem Z.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

they don't even fire them at the engine factory now days. they just spin them over with a electric motor to make sure they have oil pressure and they read the friction to make sure all is OK. the old days they fired them on natural gas at the engine factory. i have been thru a few assy plants and i have seen them push a few off of the line because they would not start but this was years ago

[Michael W.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

Best ask for a rate per 10,000 not a rate per 100.

[William C.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

If you are talking about Flint, John Hinkley would be the best equipped to give that answer. and as Michael indicated, the rate per 100 would be Zero, the rate per 10K would be more relevent

[Jack H.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

Agree! Plus, the hot engine test stands at the engine plants 'failed' engines for more than just 'no start' failures...

[John H.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

If you are talking about Flint, John Hinkley would be the best equipped to give that answer. and as Michael indicated, the rate per 100 would be Zero, the rate per 10K would be more relevent

A good friend of mine ran the Piston Department at Flint V-8 in the 60's, and I recall him saying that a really bad day was five or six hot-test failures (out of 5,500 engines). Of course, hot-test only lasted about 30 seconds - just long enough to fire it, check for oil pressure, set the timing, look for leaks, and listen for any weird noises.

That's pretty remarkable considering that Machining ran at over 200 per hour (on three shifts) and Assembly ran at 175 per hour on one line and 125 per hour on the other line on two shifts. Nobody builds engines at that rate these days, and nobody hot-tests them any more either.

Engine pulls in the car assembly plants were quite rare - one or two a month at St. Louis would be a lot.

[Bill I.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

Thanks to all. Guess they really knew how to build em in those days. Bill

[Tom H.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

That is amazing.

[John D.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

I worked in GM assembly plants for over twenty years and the vast majority of final line no starts were for minor issues like a wirng harness not fully seated or a loose ground wire.

Engine pulls for a failure were very rare occurance, most were changed due to a noise issue (lower end rap or rattle) but no more than one or two a month as john stated out of thousands...

[Bill M.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

I worked in GM assembly plants for over twenty years and the vast majority of final line no starts were for minor issues like a wirng harness not fully seated or a loose ground wire.

Engine pulls for a failure were very rare occurance, most were changed due to a noise issue (lower end rap or rattle) but no more than one or two a month as john stated out of thousands...

And even those may not have been a failure. My engineer-in-training project in 1969 was to analyze an engine knock you could hear when you jazzed the throttle on a fully-accessorized 350. All the accessory belts were pulling the crank up against the top shell of the #1 main bearing. When you accelerated the engine, the force on the piston pushed the crank down onto the bottom shell of the #1 bearing, and it knocked. I had a graph plotting the motion of the crank as this occurred. The bearing wasn't damaged or worn, just noisy. Tonawanda was selectively fitting the front bearing shell by measuring each #1 crank journal with an air gauge and selecting a bearing shell that cut the clearance to the minimum. I guess they were still getting some back on warranty and/or the process guys didn't want to pay for the extra measuring operation...don't remember. I was gone before the fix was in place.

[Terry M.]

Re: 1st engine start at the factory

And even those may not have been a failure. My engineer-in-training project in 1969 was to analyze an engine knock you could hear when you jazzed the throttle on a fully-accessorized 350. All the accessory belts were pulling the crank up against the top shell of the #1 main bearing. When you accelerated the engine, the force on the piston pushed the crank down onto the bottom shell of the #1 bearing, and it knocked. I had a graph plotting the motion of the crank as this occurred. The bearing wasn't damaged or worn, just noisy. Tonawanda was selectively fitting the front bearing shell by measuring each #1 crank journal with an air gauge and selecting a bearing shell that cut the clearance to the minimum. I guess they were still getting some back on warranty and/or the process guys didn't want to pay for the extra measuring operation...don't remember. I was gone before the fix was in place.

Gee Bill, now you have my curiosity up. I would love to know what the cure was.