L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

[Keith B.]

My pass side valve cover and Crane 1.7 Roller Rockers have just started to knock or click, click, click sound. I have a Fel-Pro 1630 Cork/Lam gasket already and longer rocker arm bolts. Quiet on start-up but once warmed up and run at highway speeds the clicking sound is getting very loud. I have my org stock dripper valve covers with drippers still in place.

I was thinking about going with a taller valve covers but that really hurts with up coming NW NCRS Regional in August. I see Summitt sells a 1.15" alum spacer , not sure if that is a viable option, maybe to high on drivers side due to ALT very near front valve cover.

Or would you recommend bending the drippers up flat and level and is this safe with my full Crane Roller 1.7 rockers set-up. I do not race, rather cruise with my 66. Appreciate your time. Keith

[Clem Z.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

My pass side valve cover and Crane 1.7 Roller Rockers have just started to knock or click, click, click sound. I have a Fel-Pro 1630 Cork/Lam gasket already and longer rocker arm bolts. Quiet on start-up but once warmed up and run at highway speeds the clicking sound is getting very loud. I have my org stock dripper valve covers with drippers still in place.

I was thinking about going with a taller valve covers but that really hurts with up coming NW NCRS Regional in August. I see Summitt sells a 1.15" alum spacer , not sure if that is a viable option, maybe to high on drivers side due to ALT very near front valve cover.

Or would you recommend bending the drippers up flat and level and is this safe with my full Crane Roller 1.7 rockers set-up. I do not race, rather cruise with my 66. Appreciate your time. Keith

you don't need the tin drippers with roller rockers as the taller adjustment nut deflects the oil like the drippers would. roller rockers will always be noisier that the stock GM ones even with the clearance set correctly

[Patrick H.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

You can always pick up a set of reproductions that don't have the drippers so you don't accidentally "oops" with yours. Heck, get them in chrome and have fun.

[Keith B.]

L-36 Stock Valve cover clearance and Crane Rollers

Guys: Since my last post I have removed my stock valve covers and laterally bent the drippers flat, put new 1630 Fel Pro Cork/Lam gaskets on and the click, click, tick noise is 60 % quieter. Actually flattened out the bolt holes and used RTV Copper ( Thx John Hinckley) silicone and NO Leaks !! However..........that click , click, tick, tick noise still drives me nuts, although less noisy. So I threw on an old set of PRO-Stock TALL valve covers, and Perfect - No Noise at all. So I have confirmed my source for the chatter noise. I definately want to stay with my stock Valve covers. Should I try another Fel-Pro and dbl up the gaskets 0.313" X 2. Or.....

Remove my Crane Roller Rocker 1.7 ratio http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CR...4-16/?rtype=10

and replace with a lower profile Roller Comp Rocker set-up. Not sure which one Joe L recommends that apparently does not hit stock VC's but looking for your best advice. I just do not want to go to some ugly tall non-oem valve cover..........as that would be the cheaper option but kill me on the judging field.....

[Duke W.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

I don't get it. Why not just go back to OE? If you want "more power", pull the heads for some massaging, retard the OE cam four degrees and you have at least as much power as a Tonawanda-built SHP 427 with no loss of the L-36s tractor-like low end torque without screwing around with all this Mickey Mouse aftermarket junk.

I now include the garbage disposal along with roller tip rocker arms as two of mankind's most useless inventions.

Duke

[Jimmy G.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

I have built a 65 with a retro frame and a 600 HP 489 CID engine and the same clearance issue Simple to use 2 sets of gaskets together and problen solved. Leaks a little but I am working on that

[Keith B.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Duke: I'm not going to debate the benefits or hype of Roller Rockers other than I took the advice from my engine rebuilder and perhaps bought into the advantages, albeit probably rather minimal on a street engine like my L-36. I would like to add that not all aftermarket products are junk vs OE. My engine runs perfectly with noticeable Hp gains due to massaging my stock cast heads/flow. Thanks to your advice. My Engle valve springs are precision Aircraft quality vs my original ones that were prone to breakage, although GM replacements are better. I used Engle valve train components and was/am very impressed with their quality, old Jack Engle did some nice work. My Sig Erson Cam, Duration .050"=218 intake:228 exhaust. Lift intake .510 and .527 exhaust with Love center =112 is not too radical. It improved performace but does have a rougher idle.

So Duke how difficult would it be to scrap my Crane 1.7 ratio Rollers and what you recommend for replacement. Fed Mogul >> ?? appreciate it...

[Duke W.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Replacing rocker arms is not a difficult task - barely more time than simply adjusting valves.

If you install OE replacement rocker arms you won't feel any difference in engine performance.

If you want to know for sure, get a before and after chassis dyno tests.

Did you have your heads flow tested? Numbers?

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Duke: I'm not going to debate the benefits or hype of Roller Rockers other than I took the advice from my engine rebuilder and perhaps bought into the advantages, albeit probably rather minimal on a street engine like my L-36. I would like to add that not all aftermarket products are junk vs OE. My engine runs perfectly with noticeable Hp gains due to massaging my stock cast heads/flow. Thanks to your advice. My Engle valve springs are precision Aircraft quality vs my original ones that were prone to breakage, although GM replacements are better. I used Engle valve train components and was/am very impressed with their quality, old Jack Engle did some nice work. My Sig Erson Cam, Duration .050"=218 intake:228 exhaust. Lift intake .510 and .527 exhaust with Love center =112 is not too radical. It improved performace but does have a rougher idle.

So Duke how difficult would it be to scrap my Crane 1.7 ratio Rollers and what you recommend for replacement. Fed Mogul >> ?? appreciate it...

Keith-----


Keep in mind that GM uses roller fulcrum rockers on all Gen III and Gen IV small blocks. These rockers do not have roller tips, but the main advantage of aftermarket roller rockers is not in the roller tip. There's no way that GM went to roller fulcrum rockers because the old ball and socket type worked just as well. I'm sure the cost of this change was substantial and was not done on a whim.

In fact, the very first PRODUCTION Chevrolet V-8 to receive roller rocker arms was the 1996 Gen II LT4. The roller rockers for that engine were Crane-manufactured aluminum with both roller fulcrum and roller tips. These were a fully PRODUCTION-validated installation.

Before GM went to roller rocker arms on a PRODUCTION engine, I had questions about efficacy of the use of such rocker arms on a street engine. After they did, and especially after they went mainstream with the Gen III and Gen IV, I no longer had any such questions.

[Clem Z.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Keith-----


Keep in mind that GM uses roller fulcrum rockers on all Gen III and Gen IV small blocks. These rockers do not have roller tips, but the main advantage of aftermarket roller rockers is not in the roller tip. There's no way that GM went to roller fulcrum rockers because the old ball and socket type worked just as well. I'm sure the cost of this change was substantial and was not done on a whim.

In fact, the very first PRODUCTION Chevrolet V-8 to receive roller rocker arms was the 1996 Gen II LT4. The roller rockers for that engine were Crane-manufactured aluminum with both roller fulcrum and roller tips. These were a fully PRODUCTION-validated installation.

Before GM went to roller rocker arms on a PRODUCTION engine, I had questions about efficacy of the use of such rocker arms on a street engine. After they did, and especially after they went mainstream with the Gen III and Gen IV, I no longer had any such questions.

IMHO they did it to lower the oil temp,10 to15 degrees and help with friction in these engines to get better MPG. the roller tips make the valve train noise you hear with roller tip rockers. all you have to do is put full roller rockers on the LS series engines and the noise starts

[Duke W.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Keith-----


Keep in mind that GM uses roller fulcrum rockers on all Gen III and Gen IV small blocks. These rockers do not have roller tips, but the main advantage of aftermarket roller rockers is not in the roller tip. There's no way that GM went to roller fulcrum rockers because the old ball and socket type worked just as well. I'm sure the cost of this change was substantial and was not done on a whim.

In fact, the very first PRODUCTION Chevrolet V-8 to receive roller rocker arms was the 1996 Gen II LT4. The roller rockers for that engine were Crane-manufactured aluminum with both roller fulcrum and roller tips. These were a fully PRODUCTION-validated installation.

Before GM went to roller rocker arms on a PRODUCTION engine, I had questions about efficacy of the use of such rocker arms on a street engine. After they did, and especially after they went mainstream with the Gen III and Gen IV, I no longer had any such questions.

Just to make sure we're not mixing apples and oranges, when most guys say "roller rockers", they're talking about the roller tip abominations that have conventional ball/socket pivots, just like the OE rockers.

Roller trunnion rockers are a whole different animal. They offer lower friction at very high revs and enough reduction at low revs than GM designed them into the LS-engines as one of many details that reduce internal engine friction and improve fuel economy.

GM also wanted to get rid of all the sliding surfaces in the valve train so oil with less anti-wear additive could be used because anti-wear additive combustion byproducts have been recognized as being a factor in catalyst performance degradation.

The LS roller trunnion rockers have conventional curved tips than roll, not slide, over the valve stem - just like vintage small block rocker arms.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Just to make sure we're not mixing apples and oranges, when most guys say "roller rockers", they're talking about the roller tip abominations that have conventional ball/socket pivots, just like the OE rockers.

Roller trunnion rockers are a whole different animal. They offer lower friction at very high revs and enough reduction at low revs than GM designed them into the LS-engines as one of many details that reduce internal engine friction and improve fuel economy.

GM also wanted to get rid of all the sliding surfaces in the valve train so oil with less anti-wear additive could be used because anti-wear additive combustion byproducts have been recognized as being a factor in catalyst performance degradation.

The LS roller trunnion rockers have conventional curved tips than roll, not slide, over the valve stem - just like vintage small block rocker arms.

Duke

Duke------



The only "roller" rockers that I have any interest in are those with roller trunnions. The type with the traditional ball and socket trunnions are not something that I would ever use. With just the roller tip, very little, if any, advantage is realized. However, these rockers do offer one thing: they are investment cast (just like the Gen III and Gen IV rockers), so they offer more precise control of rocker ratio that stamped steel. Still, I would not be interested in using them.

I prefer steel roller rockers, though, rather than aluminum. These are available from Crower and Comp Cams.

[Keith B.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Ok guys sorry to sound ignorant but these are the Crane Energizer Roller Rocker Arm Sets that I have on my L-36. Are these acceptable other than the fact they are to high and hitting my stock VC.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-13744-16/?rtype=10

[Joe L.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

Ok guys sorry to sound ignorant but these are the Crane Energizer Roller Rocker Arm Sets that I have on my L-36. Are these acceptable other than the fact they are to high and hitting my stock VC.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CR...4-16/?rtype=10

Keith-----


Yes, they are acceptable. Aluminum components like these do have a fatigue-influenced life. However, these rockers are quite robust and I expect their expected cycle life will reliably carry them to a point well beyond the time it's going to matter to you.

[Duke W.]

Re: L-36 Stock Vavle cover clearance and Rollers

What are you trying to accomplish? It sounds from your first post that you plan on having your car judged in August.

Some funky valve cover gasket arrangement or the sound of rockers banging into the valve covers is going to cost you some points.

Back to my orignal question!

Duke