To Stainless or Brass?

[Jack A.]

You guys just gave me some great advice on rebuilding my original Master Cylinder. In following thru on the leads you gave me I ran into options I wanted to run by you. I presume the cylinders were originally Brass sleeved. I see the Stainless sleeves as an option. Any advice on this? Thanks,Jack Alexander 35730

[William C.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

Originally the cylinders had no sleeves, the bores were finished smooth and the seals ran against the metal housing. Stanless vs brass is really the option of the rebuilder. I've used both with no noticable difference.

[Mark P.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

The rebuilder I use prefers brass. He told me it is less likely to crack a rare housing (i.e. a 63 Z06) when inserted and it is smoother like a bearing. He says there are no wear concerns with brass or SS.

Joe Way was a pleasure to deal with when I needed my 1960 MC rebuilt and was always willing to answer all my questions. He has been around a long time. I used him after I was told he rebuilds MC's for Noland Adams.

http://www.brakecylinder.com/

He charged me $135 and took about 1-2 weeks.

[Bill B.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

Brass is softer then the stock metal and stainless steel. What would be the benefits of using brass?

Bill

[Mark P.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

This is from Sierra's web page:



Why do you use brass? Why not stainless steel?

The proper grades of stainless steel are fine for sleeves *if* they are installed properly. For metallurgical reasons, they must be put in with a quite tight interference fit. This fit works fine on massive disc calipers, but can break relatively thin-walled master and wheel cylinders. Much of the work we do is on cylinders that are difficult if not impossible to replace, so we can't take a chance on breaking them. We can use different assembly techniques with brass that do not risk breaking the casting.
We often re-sleeve cylinders that have had stainless sleeves installed improperly. The typical failure mode for these cylinders is that the bond between the sleeve and the casting fails, allowing the sleeve to push out of the cylinder when pressure is applied. See a set of Dunlop caliper pods with three out of four failed sleeves. The fourth sleeve was close to failure.
It's important to note that these systems do not fail from wear but rather from pitting caused by rust or corrosion. Brake parts move so slowly and so seldom, relatively speaking, and are so well lubricated that wear just isn't a factor. Even soft, non-anodized aluminum cylinders (that haven't been honed) show very little to no wear if we can find enough uncorroded surface to get a measurement. If we can prevent the pitting, we prevent the failure. The tempered brass we use is much harder than cast aluminum and not much softer than cast iron. The additional hardness of SS is just not an advantage in brake cylinders. In addition, brass is by nature a bearing material. SS is not.

[Jack H.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

Brass is softer then the stock metal and stainless steel. What would be the benefits of using brass?

Expect to encounter two different schools of opinion on brass vs. SS sleeves for a brake MC.

(1) Brass is cheaper and because it's softer (more maleable) it's easier on the rubber pistons.

(2) SS is the 'only' way to go because, in theory, it'll last a lifetime and you'll never have to re-sleeve the MC. The corollary here is, "Screw the rubber pistons, they're a dime a dozen and child's play to replace if/when they wear out."

[Dick W.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

I had White Post do many wheel and master cylinders with brass, before everyone else jumped on the band wagon. Probably 20-25 years ago. Never had a problem with any of them

[Bill B.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

So if one sleeves the master cylinder, take it to the next step and sleeve the wheel cylinders as well. Has anyone tried this?

Sorry if I jumped this thread, but thought it was directly related, I had to ask.


Bill Berger

[John F.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

I Have two 022 master cylinders resleeved with SS. I figure the one in the car should last my lifetime with the DOT-5. The other is just a backup.
John F

[Dick W.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

So if one sleeves the master cylinder, take it to the next step and sleeve the wheel cylinders as well. Has anyone tried this?

Sorry if I jumped this thread, but thought it was directly related, I had to ask.


Bill Berger

See my other post. I had some wheel cylinders sleeved 25-30 years ago. It was impossible to find new cylinders for a '28 Chrysler

[Jack A.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

Thanks Guys,

As usual a great dscussion. I was already leaning toward the Brass. You all have given me even more reason to go that way. It was very hard to find a good 022MC and I do not want to risk ruining it.

Regardsin the question as to Wheel Cylinders. They definatly can and are resleeved. It seems that The Brass is a safe and reliable choice here too.

Thanks again to everyone.

Jack Alexander 35730

[Tracy C.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

Ya know...if the bore is clean with no pitting or wear, there is no need to resleeve with anything. Just hone and go .

tc

[Donald H.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

I just got my master cylinder sleeved by Brake & Equipment Warehouse. The guy did a great job. When I sent it in, the insides of the fluid reservoir was really nasty with gunk and rust.

Based on research on this forum, I decided I would install the rebuild kit myself and sent it off to have the sleeve installed. They use stainless which again I choose based on other research on this forum. I am doing a complete restore on a 1960 vette and will be replacing all the brake lines, and rebuilding wheel cylinders and going to Dot 5 fluid.

I am by no means an expert, that is why this forum is so great. Many are out there listening and helping.

I ordered the rebuild kit from NAPA online (again from suggestion in this forum). It is interesting to note that the box from NAPA looks pretty old and crumpled. And, had a sticker on the box "Last One".

By the way. here is a before and after photo.

[Christopher K.]

Re: To Stainless or Brass?

Ya know...if the bore is clean with no pitting or wear, there is no need to resleeve with anything. Just hone and go .

tc

Words of wisdom!
I rebuilt my '73, no resleeve, works perfect.

Good luck, Chris