Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

[Edward L.]

I've been reading with interest the thread posted by David Farrell and his his recent judging experience at the Heartland Regional.

I submit the following:

I have presented four straight axle cars for judging at various regional events over the last 12 years. All of these cars were restored and painted by me. Of the four, three were painted with lacquer. The fourth, because of the metallic content was painted using base coat/ clear coat.

In an effort to make the bc/cc car appear as though it were lacquer, I used an assortment of techniques such as Krylon Matte spray paint, very fine steel wool, etc. I was not overly enthusiastic about the result, however, I did not want to do anything that would be difficult to undo in the future.

Now for the good part, without exception, all the lacquer cars received deductions for being too shiny in the trunk and door jamb areas. The finish was straight "out of the gun" lacquer. No sanding or buffing.

It gets better. The bc/cc car received no deductions. In fact I was complimented on the finish of the car by the judges and other individuals on the upper end of the NCRS hierarchy.

While such things as a "paint matrix" has value, it is only valuable if the individual judging has a good sense of what correctly applied lacquer looks like.

I'm sure that every NCRS chapter has members that have experience in this area. A few hands on clinics by each would go a long way to educate those that have never painted, and provide a better understanding of the process.

[Terry M.]

Re: Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

I said my piece on the other thread, but I will state again, for the record, "It doesn't matter if you use lacquer or another material." The aim is to duplicate the factory finish and however you do that is fine.

Now if your issue is that the judges can not identify factory appearance -- that is another issue that should have nothing to do with your choice of materials.

[Pat M.]

Re: Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

The straight-out-of-the-gun lacquer on my 70's jambs, etc. is pretty dull and has almost no depth, and it judged very well. I don't know what my painter may have done differently from those who get shiny lacquer without buffing.

[Mike M.]

Re: Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

Hi Guys, If the car was painted in pieces, likely there would not be any overpray on the jambs or in the "Hidden" areas and would yield pretty much full gloss. (Less the buffing)
The factory production process included edging (as in the the jambs, and elsewhere) then painting the exterior with the doors semi-closed. This accounts for overspray on the jambs and in those other "Hidden" areas.
This is what judges expect to see in the jambs. The exterior paint with varying degrees of overpray. (Not Dull)
HaND

[Dick W.]

Re: Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

The straight-out-of-the-gun lacquer on my 70's jambs, etc. is pretty dull and has almost no depth, and it judged very well. I don't know what my painter may have done differently from those who get shiny lacquer without buffing.

Pat, et al, You can spray lacquer out of the gun and can be somewhat glossy, or totally flat depending on the air pressure and thinner used. You use a very quick drying thinner and somewhat more air pressure and the paint will be very rough and dull. By the same token, use a very slow drying thinner and reduced air pressure and the paint will have a noticeable gloss to it.

All in the technique

[Michael G.]

Re: Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

The above posts leave me with a very basic concern:

One of my 63's received numerous awards in the 90's (Duntov, Bloomington Gold, Triple Crown). I currently intend to put it through two regionals next Spring, then try for Duntov again at the Novi Nationals.

Looking at the paint, I can't see any difference in surface finish between the door jambs and the rest of the surfaces. They're all still very glossy. This car received a total of 4 points in deducts for paint in two regionals and a national.

Based on what I am reading above I will need to repaint a Duntov car, just to meet current, albeit somewhat subjective, ideas on what a car was when it left the plant.

If that's the case, a re-paint is not gonna happen any time soon, so, so much for future judging of this car.

[Pat M.]

Re: Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

The above posts leave me with a very basic concern:

One of my 63's received numerous awards in the 90's (Duntov, Bloomington Gold, Triple Crown). I currently intend to put it through two regionals next Spring, then try for Duntov again at the Novi Nationals.

Looking at the paint, I can't see any difference in surface finish between the door jambs and the rest of the surfaces. They're all still very glossy. This car received a total of 4 points in deducts for paint in two regionals and a national.

Based on what I am reading above I will need to repaint a Duntov car, just to meet current, albeit somewhat subjective, ideas on what a car was when it left the plant.

If that's the case, a re-paint is not gonna happen any time soon, so, so much for future judging of this car.

Why not take it to a Regional to see how the current paint judges? You may be able to thereafter just dull the jambs, etc. (much in the archives) so as to minimize the hit you might take on the paint as a whole. Just a thought.

[Kurt G.]

Re: Deductions for Lacquer Paint etc, etc.

I just returned from the Heartland Regional, and in addition to having my original, un-resotred '72 judged, I attended the judging classes lead by Terry. One of the classes was about paint, and when John Ballard did his presentation, not only were eyes opened, but some eyebrows were raised. John pointed out several areas to look at, including the door jams. The key points made by him were that the top of the car (flat, horizontal surfaces) were polished at the factory, the vertical surfaces (sides of the cars) were not so much. The door jams need to be less glossy than the rest of the car, cuz they weren't polished at all. Now, that being said, if the paint was applied a little heavier on one car than the next, one car will have a little more gloss in the jams than the next one. John's point was, you should see yourself in the hood, see your toes, but not in detail in the sides, and maybe see an outline in the jams. So, don't spend a lot of time polishing the sides of your car, and on the jams, they shouldn't be as glossy as the rest of the car is. That doesn't mean flat, just less glossy. And if when judged you disagree with the judging team, mention it when they are reviewing the section sheets with you.