66 starter rehab

[Jim S.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

All of the information Dad and I have collected(archives,pictures,and interviews with engineers and line workers from the early 50s through the early 80s) shows that the starter was painted as an assembled unit,so the rivets,pole shoe screws,etc.would also be painted.The solenoid was masked in some instances,so you saw both painted and plated units.Joe is right on the pole shoes,slotted in the 7000 series and phillips on the 8000 series(with some exceptions on Pontiac units) I have seen NO credible evidence of starters delivered with an unpainted drive end or commutator end.There would be a greater possibility of a completely unpainted starter.Typical factory production was to paint the entire starter.

John,

Thats very interesting John, and a much easier way to go . Where were you before I started ! I will mask of the solenoid and give it one more coat !

While I have you ,and Joe, I do have on more question . The new JG ( a beautiful piece of work , by the way !!! ) says that the Solenoid should be a 1114356. The one I have has a 1114344. I have looked that # up and it says it was used on Small Blocks in the 60s . The number is sure close enough to be of the correct era , Maybe not originally use on Vettes though.

Your thoughts ?

JIm

[Jack H.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

An interesting observation (three local auto electric shops who've been rebuilding starters/generators/alternators for +25 years) is their experience finds the starter's main case ('frame') was painted black inside and out...

That suggests the case was dip painted prior to final as there's no paint on the burlap covering the field coils. So, if the field coils weren't installed at the time the case was painted, how did the attaching screws get black paint on their outer surfaces?

The only way I see to get from here to there is the finished assy was repainted after the nose component was installed. If so, you'd think a bean counter would have flagged the assy process for cost reduction (duplication of paint on the case).

Then, there's the issue of factory vs. service parts. Depending on what year P&A catalog you look at, sometimes service carried a full starter assembly, with solenoid ('switch') and other times the two items were divorced and you bought them separately.

So, what was the flow of things at Delco Remy? Was the painting done before the solenoid was assembled or after? It makes sense to paint before, but who really knows? I know I don't...

Plus, wouldn't it have made more sense to paint the nose of the starter BEFORE it was assembled to the main case IF the case was already painted before it was 'stuffed' with field coils, brushes, and armature?

[John P.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

One of the assembly line workers we talked to started in starter assembly and later became a line supervisor.He told us that the starter was painted as an assembled unit(with solenoid)A protective "clip" was placed on the solenoid to keep it from getting painted.The starter was hung on a conveyor belt and run through a paint booth where it got a coat of black paint(semi-flat)He gave us some pictures from his time in the plant that supported his story.At times the clip got left off(leaving a painted solenoid)and at times a starter left the paint booth with no paint(due to a jammed gun, the need to pick your nose etc.) From a production stand point,this procedure makes sense,and the photographs he gave us are an excellent verification.

[John P.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

Jim when I get back to the shop tomorrow I will check my solenoid # guide and see about your solenoid.I dont trust my memory on that one.

[Jim S.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

One of the assembly line workers we talked to started in starter assembly and later became a line supervisor.He told us that the starter was painted as an assembled unit(with solenoid)A protective "clip" was placed on the solenoid to keep it from getting painted.The starter was hung on a conveyor belt and run through a paint booth where it got a coat of black paint(semi-flat)He gave us some pictures from his time in the plant that supported his story.At times the clip got left off(leaving a painted solenoid)and at times a starter left the paint booth with no paint(due to a jammed gun, the need to pick your nose etc.) From a production stand point,this procedure makes sense,and the photographs he gave us are an excellent verification.

Variations in starter appearances Demistified !!!!! Most likely cause , Nose Picking !!!!

John,

Thanks for that explanation ! I would say a first hand account , and pictures of that era , are about as good as it gets for verification ! I would also say that story , and pictures should make a great Restorer article ! Feel free to use my above statement as your title !

I also appreciate your looking up that # tomorrow as well .

This Forum is always a Font of information !!!


Jim

[Joe L.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

John,

Thats very interesting John, and a much easier way to go . Where were you before I started ! I will mask of the solenoid and give it one more coat !

While I have you ,and Joe, I do have on more question . The new JG ( a beautiful piece of work , by the way !!! ) says that the Solenoid should be a 1114356. The one I have has a 1114344. I have looked that # up and it says it was used on Small Blocks in the 60s . The number is sure close enough to be of the correct era , Maybe not originally use on Vettes though.

Your thoughts ?

JIm

Jim------


I think the GM #1114344 solenoid was used alternately with the 1114356 during the mid-to-late 60's period. As far as I can tell, it was a PRODUCTION-only part number and was never available in SERVICE.

[Jim S.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

Jim------


I think the GM #1114344 solenoid was used alternately with the 1114356 during the mid-to-late 60's period. As far as I can tell, it was a PRODUCTION-only part number and was never available in SERVICE.

Joe,

Good to know !

As always , Thanks Much !

Jim

[Jack H.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

And your experience when you rebuild/restore original starters is to find NO PAINT on the inside surface of the main case ('frame')?

[John P.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

We do NOT find paint on the inside of the starter cases that are built for passenger car use. If you paint the case interior you insulate the brush holders and potentially keep them from grounding.This would prevent the starter from working.You would have to mask off the brush holder mounting area,adding an extra operation(and time and expense).There are exceptions,such as marine,acidic industrial,and military applications.The rebuilders that I learned(and continue to learn) from have been in the automotive rebuilding industry for over 40 years apiece. I also partially disassembled 2 of our NOS units this morning,and both showed NO paint on the inside.

[John P.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

Jim on the solenoids,Joe gave you the same information I have.

[Jack H.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

GREAT! Another old wife's tale has been shot down the tubes. Thanks!

[Jim S.]

Re: 66 starter rehab

Jim on the solenoids,Joe gave you the same information I have.

Thanks for that John.

And by the way ,while I was kidding about the title, I was serious about the article ! Your experiences along with some period photos and photos of those NOS pieces you have should pretty much end all the misconceptions out there.

As I said earlier, I did alot of Archive searching on this subject and saw pictures of painted noses, non-painted noses ,painted screws ,non painted screws etc. ect. Even the responses in this post show the different thoughts.

The editors of the Restorer are always asking for articles, and I think this would make a great one .

Jim