Cutting New Keys C-3

[Edward J.]

Does it matter how the keys are cut, I know GM had a special hand held machine that cut the keys, the hardware stone uses a machine that has a grinding stone. will this matter in the judging of keys how its done?

[Terry M.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Yes, Ed the marks on the notches are subject to examination and most (should be all) judges will know to look for the "shadow marks" of the cuts made by the original type Curtis cutting tool. Contact Pete Lindahl from the "Members list" button above. He will fix you right up. Well, he will fix up your key(s) anyway.

[Edward J.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Terry, I wonder if the GM dealers still have the old cutting tools? Or the locksmiths have this type of tool?

[Gary B.]

Judging C3 Keys

Yes, Ed the marks on the notches are subject to examination and most (should be all) judges will know to look for the "shadow marks" of the cuts made by the original type Curtis cutting tool. Contact Pete Lindahl from the "Members list" button above. He will fix you right up. Well, he will fix up your key(s) anyway.

Terry,

For C3 cars, can you tell me what judging team or teams judge keys and under what category or categories on the judging sheets do the keys appear?

It's a little incredulous to me that the shape of the keys cuts could be weighted heavily enough to garner anywhere near a single point deduct.

Gary

[Terry M.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Maybe, but why not go to someone who has the equipment, the proper key blanks, the proper stamps, and the code books (yes there is a secret decoder ring) to put the right code on the key? There is more to the original keys than just the notches. If you need a key to drive the car, the hardware store is fine -- if you want the proper keys for judging send a message to Pete. You won't be disappointed.

FWIW: The place I get my parts did retain their old key cutting equipment when they got the latest computer operated key cutting machine. They still couldn't cut me an extra emergency key for my 2008, and the guy who used to load their lock cylinders passed about a year ago. I haven't asked, but everyone there now, including the Parts Manager, wasn't born when I bought my 1970, so I have my doubts they could make a proper old-school key. I just count myself lucky that they still tolerate my eccentricities and give me a discount.

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging C3 Keys

Gary,
1970-72 key details used to be judged by the Exterior team back when I was NTL (National Team Leader) -- but that was a little more than a decade ago. I am sure 1968-69 was the same since we used the same judging forms. I can not tell you if the Exterior team still does the keys, but that would still seem a logical place.

I don't know what the point assignment is for keys, but I suspect you are right IF the only deviation was the details of the cuts. Generally if the cuts are not correct there are other deviations, but the keys are one area where there were not too many points assigned.

[Lawrence M.]

Re: Judging C3 Keys

Terry,

For C3 cars, can you tell me what judging team or teams judge keys and under what category or categories on the judging sheets do the keys appear?

It's a little incredulous to me that the shape of the keys cuts could be weighted heavily enough to garner anywhere near a single point deduct.

Gary

Gary,
On the judging sheets from 2006 for my 1969 the keys are judged in the Interior section, Rear Storage Compartment & Jack under Keys square & round. Do not know if the sheets have changed since 2006. The car received a 1 point deduction for "font & angle of letters on keys".

Larry

Larry

[Gary B.]

Cutting New Keys C-3

Terry,

I agree that the correct key blanks and properly code stamped knockouts are items that can be, should be and typically are assessed. But assessing the profile of the key cuts seems downright extreme to me.

In any case, I use a Curtis clipper, so I guess the keys I cut will pass muster from even the pickiest of judges. But I have to admit that I've never seen a mid-year judge assess the profile of the key cuts. As far as I can tell only the 68-72 judging sheets have assigned enough points to keys (Interior: Keys square and round; 4 pts originality;2 points condition) for the profile of key cuts to be close to mattering and even in that case I would argue that 1 pt or a 25% originality deduct is pretty harsh for something that can only be assessed with a magnifying glass or jewelers loop, even for someone with good eyes. No comparable item exists on the 63-67 interior judging sheets. I think the only place keys show up on 63-67 sheets is on the Exterior judging sheet, under Spare Tire Stowage and there it assigns 3 originality points to "Spare tire lock, boot and key"; too few points in my opinion to deduct for the a minute difference in the profile of the key cuts. Obviously this is just my take on things.

Gary Beaupre

[Pat M.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Terry,

I agree that the correct key blanks and properly code stamped knockouts are items that can be, should be and typically are assessed. But assessing the profile of the key cuts seems downright extreme to me.

I must agree. And if the cuts on my Duntov 70's keys were ever judged I was completely unaware of it.

[Terry M.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Back when I had two working eyes I could see that shadow from the Curtis cutter, and easily see the groves from the hardware store cutting wheel. I have not had a chance to try lately, and I doubt I could do it now without aids -- but even folks with good eyes routinely use magnifying aids for the engine stamp pad. Of course that is a few more points than the keys.

Let me get this right Gary -- you think judging the details of the notches extreme -- and this from one of the co-authors of a Restorer story about the size of the hole on the key blanks? No offense, I think the size of the hole is important, but so is the evidence of how the key was produced.

I am not suggesting that even one point deduction is warranted if the only key deviation is the details of the notches. There are well established procedures for judges tracking partial point deductions -- but that not withstanding, if one is getting new keys, why not do the full Monty? My experience is that most owners opt for a higher standard than the judges require.

I can't and won't account for the way any of the divisions judge the details of their cars. I no longer have a dog in that race. I am simply responding to Ed's original question about his 1972 -- and the answer for that year is as I posted.

I know you also have the capability of producing keys that will judge well. On other key threads both you and Pete, and a third party who escapes me at the moment, have been highly recommended. So Ed now knows that keys with ALL the details correct are available -- the choice is his.

[Edward J.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Guys, thanks for all your responses, my call is to at least to try and find a dealer with the curtus key cutter, I do have the correct key blanks, just need the right tool.

[Gary B.]

Cutting New Keys C-3

Edward,

Call a few local locksmiths and specifically ask them if they can cut a key with a Curtis clipper with the GM carriage and cam.

Gary

[Harmon C.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

It's common pratice at the hardware store that they wire brush the burrs off keys as most key cutting machines have a wire wheel on one end. The marks from the wire brush are easy to see.

[Lynn H.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Ed,
Interesting thread, as I recently purchased a couple of the "Curtis Key Clippers", along with the instructions, and hardware necessary for making Corvette keys for myself. And before any one asks or thinks I am soliciting the answer to that would be NO. I made the purchase of one on ebay,along with the manual, and then just yesterday purchased two more of the clippers along with some of the other necessary pieces to make keys for GM cars. Not only do you need the tool itself but it has interchangeable "wheels" which must be correct for the style of keys you want to produce (such as GM, Ford, Chrysler, Master Lock, etc.) And then you need the "carriages" themselves which are different for all the different style of keys, not too mention the instructions and the code book for the style you want to cut. In the last couple of weeks I have been "experimenting" with the clipper, and having some fun with it, as I received about a thousand different keys blanks, so I have plenty to play with. I say all this so everyone understands it is not that difficult to do, but it clearly takes some practice to make them come out correctly, and I think for most guys it would not be practical (not that I'm practical to say the least). I would seriously recommend contacting Pete L. as suggested earlier in the thread as I too have heard that he does an excellent job, and it would most likely be the most cost effective way of getting it right the first time around.
Lynn

[Edward J.]

Re: Cutting New Keys C-3

Lynn, good luck with the curtis clipper key cutter, years ago I Knew somewhat how to work the key cutter , I had about 20 years dealership exp. in the 70and 80s, I use to code lock cylinders and cut keys as a mechanic. in the last Chev. dealership I work at no one know how to use the tool and cut keys and code lock cylinders, they fired the parts manager who was the only guy at the time.

The old code books come in handy, I don't know if you have those, great info to have.