Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

[Jeff B.]

Greetings to all and attention to those with 65 AO Smith cars. I have an unusual finding to present to you for your consideration. Both of my doors on my personal 65 AO Smith convertible have bolts holding the inner steel structure to the door frame on what I believe - except for sanding and repainting red - are untouched doors. (This is a nearly no-hit body and a very well preserved Corvette). The forward bolts would be virtually inaccessible without removing the door skin from the door, which has not been done post assembly line construction. The bolt head marking is unlike any hardware store or shop supply bolt I've seen, but then so is that fact that these two doors have bolts instead of assembly rivets. The areas with the bolts have been plastic-media blasted to answer my question as to whether or not any work has been done in this area, and it has not. There has not been a wrench taken to the opener bolts nor have the inspection covers ever been removed. I don't think I've seen the wide masking tape on an inner door totally intact before. The point is; these doors are built the same way and have never been damaged, or apart in my opinion. My thought is that maybe the line in Iona MI was running short on assembly rivets in April '65 and "rationed" them by installing bolts to the doors where they could get away with it, keeping the line moving. Again, the forward bolts are not accessible with the door skin in place, so I believe this was done at the assembly level.

I wanted to post this to see if this anomaly has shown up on anyone else's doors. The door fiberglass is dated Mar 65; the body was assembled APR 19 65 and the final assembly of my car was APR 27 65. I would appreciate it if you would direct any freinds with APR 65 cars to this discussion. Thoughts? Thanks for your time. -Jeff

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[Jim D.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

Jeff,
My AO Smith coupe body assembled 4-1, final assembly 4-10 uses rivets in all positions.

[John H.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

My thought is that maybe the line in Iona MI was running short on assembly rivets in April '65 and "rationed" them by installing bolts to the doors where they could get away with it, keeping the line moving.

Jeff -

I agree - sure looks like a "temporary substitution" fix to keep the line moving to me; Production guys have been known to be pretty clever with deviations when the situation required it. Been there, done that.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

Thanks for your input Jim and John. This is the kind of stuff that tempts restorers to put it back "per the JG" rather than the way they found it. I'm certainly not going to do that, however.

John, I know you've seen it all at the assembly level!

[Rich P.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

John,

I have seen that headmarking before (but then again I have looked at what seems like a few million bolt heads) I usually see them in buy outs I do of old gas stations, garages and junkyards that have 60's era bolts. This is not a assemblyline bolt for 65 but most likely a bolt that was used for maintenance in the shop. I have seen this repair done in bodyshops many times but as you said the access panels were never removed.
Very interesting.
Rich

[Wayne W.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

The proof would be the primer and paint on the bolts or what is under them. You have already destroyed the evidence on top. What is underneath?

[David S.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for bringing this up.
I currently own over 300 midyear convertible doors.
And when I go through the wall of doors. I have seen bolts used where rivets would go ,allways thinking someone had fixed the loose rivets with bolts.The next time I go by the pile .I will try to see what bolts where used.
Maybe the same ??

[Jeff B.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

Thanks David - would be interesting to know. As for the paint and primer beneath the bolts Wayne, there wouldn't be any if these bolts were part of the door assembly process. I didn't want to disturb anything further as my study goes on. A previous owner's red paint over the jamb / frame area and bolts might have been masking something - but turns out it wasn't.

[Donald L.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

30 years ago I repaired a pr. of 65 no hit doors the same way (with bolts) before you could buy repro rivits. It was common to fix them that way. His driver door started saging when it was opened, it turned out all his rivits were loose (Bad original install) So I did the passenger door also they were starting to get loose. I am sure a lot of people over the years fixed them the ame way. It was a blue with white int. car.

[Scott S.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

We have restored the doors in the front by using a weld stud that looks like a rivet on one end but had a 1/4-20 threaded stud on the other end. They can be accessed with the outer panel affixed.
Thank you for sharing your information.
Scott

[Wayne W.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

Thanks David - would be interesting to know. As for the paint and primer beneath the bolts Wayne, there wouldn't be any if these bolts were part of the door assembly process. I didn't want to disturb anything further as my study goes on. A previous owner's red paint over the jamb / frame area and bolts might have been masking something - but turns out it wasn't.

Soooo, why not remove one? Don't you think it would be a determining factor?

[Page C.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

The original rivet head was 9/16 inch OD. They were installed before primer and paint. If the present bolt and washer are larger than the original 9/16 head rivet, remove one and see if there is paint or primer under it. Also the hole in the metal structure are 7/32 OD. The 1/4 inch dia. bolts will NOT pass thru those holes in the metal structure without having being drilled out. This is a common backyard repair.
Page Campbell

[John H.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

We have restored the doors in the front by using a weld stud that looks like a rivet on one end but had a 1/4-20 threaded stud on the other end. They can be accessed with the outer panel affixed.
Thank you for sharing your information.
Scott

Scott -

Yup - Mark Lovejoy had a bunch of those made from 1/4"-20 projection weld studs; chucked them in a lathe and faced off the head profile so they look exactly like the original rivets when they're painted.

[John L.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

Jeff
I am restoring an April '65 convert (last week of April SL build,..11611x) Rally Red, AO Smith body, Body build date of I 19... no bolts in the doors,.. all rivets,...

But I did note the date stamp position on your door inner. Mine are nearly completly primed on the inside, but I may take a shot at removing some of the primer in that general area to see if I can reveal a date stamp. All of the other date stamps that I have found on fiberglass parts have been March.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Apr 65 AO Smith door anomaly

Jeff
I am restoring an April '65 convert (last week of April SL build,..11611x) Rally Red, AO Smith body, Body build date of I 19... no bolts in the doors,.. all rivets,...

But I did note the date stamp position on your door inner. Mine are nearly completly primed on the inside, but I may take a shot at removing some of the primer in that general area to see if I can reveal a date stamp. All of the other date stamps that I have found on fiberglass parts have been March.

Thanks for your input John. Yeah Wayne and Page, the next step is to remove one and see what's underneath it. The patina of the fiberglass and birdcage on this car is so nice that I can't imagine anyone doing a "backyard", "bodyshop" or even a "Bubba" repair to doors that don't need to be repaired. Clearly this car has been inside more than it's been outside, and the lack of corrosion anywhere (Ohio car) shows it. The doors didn't sag, the spine of the floor isn't broken, it's just a nice example. It just isn't feasible that Mr. Owner said to his wife one day "Honey, I'm tired of looking at those pesky rivets in the Corvette doors, so today I'm going to do something about them"! Many of these old Corvettes start talking (and some start screaming) to us as we disassemble them, but this one isn't even whispering.