NOM and judging

[Todd L.]

With out an original motor, what is the best to expect from judging?

[Bill M.]

Re: NOM and judging

With out an original motor, what is the best to expect from judging?

In the early days, you could score top flight with the wrong block, but at some point, that was revised to specifically relegate wrong block cars to second flight at best.

[Joe R.]

Re: NOM and judging

Todd,

It depends on how non-original the non-original motor is. If it is the right casting number and everything on the pad is right except for the VIN, that's a 25 point deduction, if I remember correctly. This was hashed out here recently, take a look around.

Joe

[Reba W.]

Re: NOM and judging

It is an incorrect trim tag that limits a car to Second Flight.

[Michael W.]

Re: NOM and judging

With out an original motor, what is the best to expect from judging?

You can expect an excellent learning experience, a pleasant day with fellow enthusiasts and a baseline Flight Award commensurate with a first-time-out car. No negatives that I can think of.

NOM is a pretty vague term. There's five basic criteria that just the engine casing (block) is subject to, never mind the rest of the engine. To give a black/white answer at this point of how well it would do is pretty well impossible.

[Bill M.]

Re: NOM and judging

It is an incorrect trim tag that limits a car to Second Flight.

Agreed.

And if you drive your otherwise perfect car with a wrong block enough miles, you can get a Top Flight. Today, without driving points, I figure you're at 92.44 % with a wrong block. Top Flight: 94%.

But in 1977, a wrong block ("correct" pad) would lose 15 of 400 points = 96.25% . Wrong pad too, 93.75%. Top Flight was 90%.

Maybe 94% for TF followed soon after?

I figure the scoring was revised to emphasize original block.

[Richard M.]

Re: NOM and judging

I did this 2 years ago with my 59(owned 24+ yrs) at the Florida Regional. It has a 61 519 Corvette block. Everything ok except for dates. The mechanical judges said the engine was very nicely done(I did it all myself). If it wasn't for the wrong dates I'd have done much better. I just missed 2nd flight and got a third flight. I had 2 unfortunate Operations failures, which happened due to my own foolish errors. There were other issues I knew about but decided not to correct due to cost, time etc. I drove the car 100 miles there which gave me 1 extra full point.

I was not disappointed because I went there open minded to learn, be part of the process, have fun, contribute, and observe judge. It was even better than I expected. I had a absolute blast. I highly recommend it.

Rich

[Michael W.]

Re: NOM and judging

Agreed.

And if you drive your otherwise perfect car with a wrong block enough miles, you can get a Top Flight. Today, without driving points, I figure you're at 92.44 % with a wrong block. Top Flight: 94%.

The OP did not define the particulars of his engine. If the casting number is correct (which is a distinct possibility with a later C3), the deduct would drop to only 175 points instead of 350.

All is not lost.

[Joel F.]

Re: NOM and judging

I agree with all who say that this is still a worthwhile endevour. I took a look at the OP's profile and it says he is looking for a project 66 for less than 25k, so I assume this question is because he is considering a NOM 66. If the car is in that price range, I would assume it is a small block car and will need an engine rebuild at some point. In that case, it is not very hard to find a date appropriate 3858174 block, especially considering it only needs to be case within 6 months of the car's build date (there are at least a few on ebay for less than a thousand). In this case, you would probably loose between 50 and 88 points for the wrong assembly and vin stamps and possibly for the pad surface (if it was decked). 88 points out of 4500 is less than 2% of your score. Not bad at all . . . as others mentioned you can drive the car to the meet for some additional points to more than overcome this deduction. Plus you get to learn a lot more about your car, about your fellow owners, your organization, etc. To me it is a win-win situation. I wish more people would bring NOM cars out to the meets I attend.

[Todd L.]

Re: NOM and judging

I was looking at the scoring sheets for the 73 - 77 cars, under mechanical there is a section for Casting number and case configuration. 350 points, what is that? Then there is the VIN derivative for 25 points, if the VIN is wrong, does that mean you lose only 25 points, if all else is correct. What about the pad, if the motor is original but was decked, all the other numbers would be correct, the VIN would be gone, so is that a 25 point deduction and 38 point deduction for the stamp pad being milled over? That does not seem like a lot of points in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, I can only afford a NOM car or a complete basket case. At least with a basket case I can spread the cost out over a much longer period. I also want the satisfaction of doing as much work on it myself, like Joel said, "you get to learn a lot more about your car, about your fellow owners, your organization, etc.".

[Joel F.]

Re: NOM and judging

Todd,

350 pts total for the engine. The scoring is sort of a process flow that goes like this:

1. Observe Casting Number. If incorrect deduct 350 pts. If correct, continue juding next line

2. Observe Casting Date. If incorrect deduct 175 pts. If correct, continue juding next line.

3. Observe pad surface. If incorrect, deduct 38 pts

4. Observe assembly stamp. If incorrect, deduct 25 pts

5. Observe VIN stamp. If incorrect, deduct 25 pts

Lines 3-5 are really in any order and you can get any combo of the points, so it is possible to find an undecked 66 Corvette engine and get full credit for everything but the VIN.

Good luck with your search!

[Joel F.]

Re: NOM and judging

Just to clarify my post: if the casting number or date is incorrect, you can not get any of the remaining points for pad, assembly or vin.

[Michael W.]

Re: NOM and judging

1)I was looking at the scoring sheets for the 73 - 77 cars, under mechanical there is a section for Casting number and case configuration. 350 points, what is that?

2) Then there is the VIN derivative for 25 points, if the VIN is wrong, does that mean you lose only 25 points, if all else is correct.

3)What about the pad, if the motor is original but was decked, all the other numbers would be correct, the VIN would be gone, so is that a 25 point deduction and 38 point deduction for the stamp pad being milled over? That does not seem like a lot of points in the grand scheme of things.

.

1) Casting number and case configuration- it's possible that both Flint and Tonawanda used the same casting number for a given small block engine. The external 'configuration' is slightly different between the two, but only Flint cast SBs were fitted to C3s. If a Tonawanda cast SB were used, the deduct would 350 points even though it is the correct casting number.

2) If only the VIN derivative is incorrect, then it's a tiny 25 point dedeuct (the same as a non-function item in the Ops check BTW).

3) If the pad were decked, then the VIN derivative, the engine machine code and the original pad surface would be gone. Total deduction would be 25+25+38=88 points.

[Todd L.]

Re: NOM and judging

What is the engine machine code?

[Todd L.]

Re: NOM and judging

Beyond the motor.
Originality points; my urethane bumper on my car rotted off, if I replace it with a tru-flex or fiberglass two piece bumper do I lose all originality and condition points? Is there a formula for these types of incidences? Same hold true for tires, I would not want to run biased tires from 1974 on my car. The same size and manufacturer, ok. They do not make reproduction tires for most C3's.

Thanks

Todd