Parting out perfectly good cars

[Patrick H.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

the yellow ZO-6 with the katech motor is for sale.

the blue 08 still has payments.

[Tom H.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

I can say that there is nothing quite like a 90 to 95 ZR1. I do have a ton of experience with them. Sold and driven over 100 of them. Long live the ZR1 !!

Never owned one, but always wanted one.

[Brian M.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

And he has a YELLOW car.

the blue 08 still has payments.

[Pat M.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

Hmmm? Let's see. The C4 was devoid of any real styling. The quality control was weak at best. And lets not forget the arcade dashboard and the cheapest plastic interior on Gods green earth. And EVERYTHING breaks. Not until the later C5s has Chevy come close to fixing these issues. I don't think their racing heritage makes up for these short comings. Except for the ZR-1 The C4s will always be the lowest value Vettes in my book. Just my .2 cents. My appologies and condolences to C4 owners.

My thoughts lie similarly to Clem. Did I think that they were nice cars when they were new and I was in college / med school / residency? Absolutely.

Now realize, my Dad owns a very nice 92 convertible and I've driven it a fair amount. So, I don't make my comments due to lack of experience.

There is a lifetime supply of cowl shake that is worse than my 70 Cutlass convertible. Squeaks and rattles are always present even though I've tried to quiet many of them. They're worse than my 72 coupe. Thanks to Lloyd Reuss the ingress/egress over that stupid sill is absolutely horrible. I always think of them as a great motor and chassis in search of a car, and that same analogy comes back to mind each time I get inside the car and drive it for a while.

Patrick

These standard complaints about how uniquely bad C4s supposedly are remind me of two articles written about a Corvette. Car and Driver's Steve Smith wrote that the car he was given was "unfit for a road test", and that the car had a "shocking lack of quality control."

He continued, "Sometimes [body panels] chafed against each other, sometimes they left wide gaps, sometimes they were just plain crooked. In the rain water leaked through a gap into the bolt-on hardtop and dripped on our left shoulders like the Chinese water torture. The surface of the fiberglass was as wavy as a home-built layup. The car rattled and shook on mildly bumpy roads."

Car and Driver's Brock Yates called this same car "A hoofer with a gooey frosting of 'stardom' concealing rather limited artistry."

The car? A C3.

[John D.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

Bad-mouthing C-4 owners is why membership in NCRS remains flat and not growing. They are the next generation of owners NCRS should be courting.

Owners of C-4s and especially C-4 ZR-1s should be given the same respect in the NCRS that the C-1 and C-2 owners desire.

They are all Corvettes. Does the "C" in NCRS only mean C-1s and C-2s???

[Patrick H.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

Bad-mouthing C-4 owners is why membership in NCRS remains flat and not growing. They are the next generation of owners NCRS should be courting.

Owners of C-4s and especially C-4 ZR-1s should be given the same respect in the NCRS that the C-1 and C-2 owners desire.

They are all Corvettes. Does the "C" in NCRS only mean C-1s and C-2s???

I don't recall any of the posts above bad mouthing any C4 owners at all. We may not like the C4 and for various reasons may choose not to own one, but that does not mean that they cannot be an accepted part of the organization. I know plenty of C4 owners and as noted for myself I thought at the time that they were a fine car.

Unfortunately it seems that with the exception of 78 Pace Cars, 82 Collector Editions and the ZR-1s, very few post-72 cars show up at our events. So, I don't think that our membership "stops" at the end of the C3s. The majority of the cars entered are much older.

Patrick

[James W.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

What is it about C4s that causes these types of reactions? I never hear people with such reactions to either the C1, C2, or C3 generations. It's almost as thought if you have those opinions you keep quiet and respectful with the those owners. But C4s - go ahead and let loose - because they're just a bunch of bland no personality cars anyway, right? Except:

- Unlike the prior two generations of Corvettes, the C4 was actually a consistently successful racing platform. In fact the whole Challenge Car program was because the mid 80s Corvettes were too quick for any of the other marques and were banned from competing.
- The 90 ZR-1 set a world record for 24 hours and 5000 miles with an average speed of about 175 miles per hour with a COMPLETELY STOCK ENGINE. I would be hard pressed to believe that even the new ZR1 could match those speeds over 24 hours without blowing up. The new ZR1 in internal testing has performed at WOT for 24 hours too, but the LT5 has been tested at WOT for a straight 7 days!
- There is no better looking Corvette engine than the LT5 - bar none. Even my 67 435 L71 doesn't have the same awe factor when the hood opens up. For that matter, there is no smoother Corvette engine at any RPM (thanks to the DOHC design).
- The C4 generation , unlike the prior generation, is a story of consistently increasing performance. From the '84 with the 205HP L83 to the '95 405HP (actually higher with the Dunn heads), there was unceasing engine performance improvement over the generation. The last of the Gen I small blocks, the LT4 was a better (straight line) performer and had higher horsepower than the vaunted '71 LS6, the last solid lifter big block. And had the decision to go with the LS series of engines NOT been made, Lotus had a 475HP LT5 ready for production in 1995. How many years did it then take to achieve that kind of power (in a significantly larger displacement engine no less)?
- The ZR-1 was the first magazine tested road Corvette to reach under 13 seconds in the quarter since the 66/67 Corvettes. Even the tested L88s as delivered were never that fast (Yes I know it's because of the severely restricted exhausts).
- The C4 Corvettes were the first generation to have reputation for world class handling - since improved with every generation.
- And as a throw out comment (because this is where many seem to like to criticize the C4), the general consensus at GM styling about the most and least successfully styled Corvettes does NOT have the C4 at the bottom of the list.

So why is the C4 so generally and publicly maligned?

Mark

take two aspirins and a nap. You'll feel better. Seriously, when I started judging in 1984 the soldiaxle guys were saying that anything built after 1962 wasn't a real vette, that floppy axles meant floppy **** and the midyear guys were saying that the shark bodied vettes weren't real vettes, either because they'd never be wirth a dime, etc, etc. Some people like to denigrate anything they don't have, or want, so they badmouth. I had a 71 LS5 4-spd convertible that I sold to get a 1990 ZR-1. I didn't do it to get rich off the car, as they are free-falling in value right now. I bought it because I thought the looks, engineering and scarcity make it something special. I also have a 2007, just selling my C5. I think the C5 is better looking, but the C6 is better in nearly every other way. I've owned a 60, 72, 71, 99 and now a 90 and 07. They are ALL great cars, each in their on way.

Jim

[Bill C.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

I remember having a conversation back in the late 80's with a well known parts dealer, also long associated with 4-speeds-by-D_________, he told me at that time he would buy as many cars as he could and pay $25-30K for them back then and drag them back to the midwest and take them apart to sell the parts for end profit. I am sure most of them cycled around again and are rolling again but what a shame I thought!

[John D.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

I don't recall any of the posts above bad mouthing any C4 owners at all. We may not like the C4 and for various reasons may choose not to own one, but that does not mean that they cannot be an accepted part of the organization. I know plenty of C4 owners and as noted for myself I thought at the time that they were a fine car.

Unfortunately it seems that with the exception of 78 Pace Cars, 82 Collector Editions and the ZR-1s, very few post-72 cars show up at our events. So, I don't think that our membership "stops" at the end of the C3s. The majority of the cars entered are much older.

Patrick

I meant C-4s, but it is the treatment of the owners which drives membership. Last I heard the NCRS organizations membership was flat. Generally NCRS loses as many members as it gains each year. I am both a member of NCRS and the ZR1 Registry. I can't tell you how many times I have heard about NCRS members snubbing owners once they learn they have a C-4. My point is the organization needs to embrace C-4 owners. I don't think this is happening.

Take a minute and go back and read the posting on parting out the 1990 ZR1. They claim they could not get it judged on the west coast. There is also a thread discussing the Barrett-Jackson NCRS booth. If these are true, we need to take a hard look at the situation.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

Take a minute and go back and read the posting on parting out the 1990 ZR1. They claim they could not get it judged on the west coast. There is also a thread discussing the Barrett-Jackson NCRS booth. If these are true, we need to take a hard look at the situation.

Apparently the comments regarding "They claim they could not get it judged on the west coast" are on a different forum?

All one would have to do is take it to an NCRS event on the "west coast" - and this year had a few, including the National.

[Henry S.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

I remember having a conversation back in the late 80's with a well known parts dealer, also long associated with 4-speeds-by-D_________, he told me at that time he would buy as many cars as he could and pay $25-30K for them back then and drag them back to the midwest and take them apart to sell the parts for end profit. I am sure most of them cycled around again and are rolling again but what a shame I thought!

Bill,
You're right, it is a shame. You can see it now: Dealer buys 10 C2's, disassembles them, sells off to restoration shops, restoration shop reassembles, restore, restamp, repaint and SHABAM: You have the same 10 C2's all with different parts being sold as "original numbers matching"!!
But now the price tag is $75,000-150,000!!

[Ara G.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

I purchased a gorgeous Silver 67 Coupe a little over a year ago from a fella not far from me. It was his wife's car, and his car that was also for sale was a 67 Black coupe with a 572 crate motor in it. It was an original green car, with black leather interior. Factory side exhaust and NO DOUBT an original Big Block car. The car's paint was decent, interior was decent and the car sounded and ran like no other car I have ever heard or driven. I couldn't swing buying both. I chose the Silver car as it was completely original and unrestored, L79 Smog car with leather interior and other options. I called the guy 3 weeks later about the black car and he said he sold it.....for 35K......Holy Sh**. He gave me the contact info for the guy who bought it. He was parting the car out. He only wanted the body to put it on an Art Morrison chassis and put a SMALL BLOCK IN IT......What an idiot. I pleaded with him to leave it alone, as the car still had the original 4 speed trans and the original 4.11 rear in it. I told him he could get a dated 351 block and have a magnificnet car. He told where to go.....It made me sick to hear, but it still happens - meaning parting out C2's....He offered me the motor for 12K. What a guy.....What an idiot too....

[John D.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

Each to his own. I have a 90 and there's nothing quite like the rush of the secondary system kicking in. That, the bullet-proof nature of the motor and the uniqueness make it my kind of car

Jim

I agree.

That's why I have 2

John

[Lynn H.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

Really, the ZR-1 is the motor. The rest of it is basically a C4. That's a hard sell. You might get $12k or $15k for the drive train, but after that it's pushing it up hill

Jim

If I am not mistaken the body on the ZR1 is not the same as the "base car". I seem to remember they were wider???
Lynn

[Michael D.]

Re: Parting out perfectly good cars

...I very much don't like C4's...

The C6 has no appeal for me, but we're all different. Whatever floats your boat.