Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

[Greg L.]

I'm sure the answer will be more complex than the question but I've heard that S/S urethane can be...so...can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

The color in question is Cortez Silver if that matters?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Short answer: yes.

[Gene M.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Greg,
You will never fool a good paint guy. He will always be able to tell bc/cc compared to original lacquer.

But you can make it "acceptable" for NCRS judging. Keeping in mind fooling a knowledgeable paint guy, you will not.

Does this answer your question without being political?

[Bill C.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

I agree with Patrick....

Lots of patience and "tricking" stuff, and you will get a look/finish somewhat resembling lacquer. BUT, it will never look like the paint applied by GM in 1970 etc....

As stated above - can not fool a paint guy.......

[Dick W.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

I believe that I would use single stage for that color. It will take a lot less work to make it appear as factory applied. You will give up very little durability

[Jim D.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Short answer: yes.

I agree, but it's a lot of work to make a superior product look like the crap the factory put on. Same goes for even door gaps and arrow straight panels. Personally, why do an inferior job just to satisfy some judge? I find it impossible to overlook flaws when doing body and paint.

[Floyd B.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

I believe that I would use single stage for that color. It will take a lot less work to make it appear as factory applied. You will give up very little durability

Not that I'm any expert at all, but in my limited experience I agree with Dick 100%. I have been using PPG Delthane DAR with good success. You can control it's viscosity quite well (wide range of reducers available) and produce a fairly dull, orange peeled effect. The other benefit of this product line is that you can clear coat it with DAU75 and both DAR and DAU75 use DXR80 hardener. This really helps reduce wasted material since hardener has a short shelf life of about 2 months before it starts to yellow - and it's rather expensive. This has allowed me to use the same investment in equipment, materials and (probably most importantly) time/experience to perform touch-up on both my '73 and my '96.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

I'm sure the answer will be more complex than the question but I've heard that S/S urethane can be...so...can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

The color in question is Cortez Silver if that matters?

Wow...This is deja' vu all over again. Nearly three years ago there was a guy on here with exactly the same name as you asking nearly this same question.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?t=50855&uid=4869

That discussion of what paint for him to use must have gone on for about a year. But...he was bound and determined to use acrylic lacquer just like factory.

Hey...Wait a minute! That guy had the same member number as you, Greg, and you're back asking the same questions. Ok...Level with us...Did I miss the thread where you told what happened to your brand new acrylic lacquer? It's been less than three years!

[Tony S.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

The better question is this: can BC/CC pass judging without any point deducts? The answer is yes. My painter in the Kansas City area (Mark Gordon @ Mark's Fiberglass) has painted two Regional Top Flight cars that both achieved no deducts though they were painted, quite effectively, with BC/CC.

I prefer BC/CC over the other platforms because it is the most durable paint system, and BC/CC usually carries a lifetime product warranty.

Hope this helps.
Tony

[Greg L.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Ha Ha Chuck...be nice now Has it really been three years geeezz....

Oh well here's the deal. Since then I got all tooled up with a 18 cfm compressor, devilbiss gun, lighting and so forth. I acquired all the PPG lacquer that I'll need and gave it a shot(no pun intended) the summer before last. Well I wasted alot of the paint due to what now looks like way too high air pressure and too much thinner. Then I sanded quite a bit of it down and tried again. This time it was way better but had some bad spots where I had sanded through to the primer. The plan was to try again last summer but the 60 kept me too busy so I never had the chance to try it again properly thinned and at the proper pressure.

Fast forward to now... I just did my first ever metallic BC/CC blend repair on an 03 Caravan(don't ask) and I was amazed at how well it came out. It's way too shiny to pass as lacquer but I was quite please at how easy the base and then clear went on...not to mention how even the metallic is especially in the blended area. The only reason I was hung up on lacquer was because I wanted it to look proper and it was "easy" to spray. Well I seem to have had a hard time spraying it but found the BC/CC to be relatively easy. So....I was thinking that if it's not too much out of my league to make it look like lacquer, I might just go and shoot it with a BC/CC.

Sounds like I might be in over my head though so maybe I should just learn how to spray lacquer...

[Greg L.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

The better question is this: can BC/CC pass judging without any point deducts? The answer is yes. My painter in the Kansas City area (Mark Gordon @ Mark's Fiberglass) has painted two Regional Top Flight cars that both achieved no deducts though they were painted, quite effectively, with BC/CC.

I prefer BC/CC over the other platforms because it is the most durable paint system, and BC/CC usually carries a lifetime product warranty.

Hope this helps.
Tony

Tony you are right, that is the better question.

Unfortunately in my part of the country I can't find anyone that still knows how to spray lacquer or even cares about how to make a modern paint look like lacquer so either I have to transport my car(closest guy that I know of is about 13 hr drive each way) or I have to do it myself.

If nothing else I would at least like to learn what it takes to mimic lacquer that way I could play around a bit with it and see for myself. The other option I guess would be to spray the silver lacquer as a base and shoot a clear lacquer over it...or shoot a 50/50 mix of color and clear together and see how that works. I know even that won't be "original" but I've been told by several people here that silver has a very high amount of clear in it anyways so mixing it 50/50 with clear would be almost impossible to detect. If it was detected then so be it because the paint stage of this resto has taken all the fun out of it for me.

On a bad day I just want to sell the car as is so that I can move on to something less "restrictive". Hobbies are supposed to be fun. This hasn't been a hobby for me for quite some time now.....

[Joe R.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Having painted several cars, (dozens) in lacquer I just don't understand your question.

A person that is blind in one eye and can't see out of the other can shoot lacquer!

BC/CC is a pain in the backside! Guess I'm dating myself but that has been my experience.

Just following the paint manufacturer's recommendations for mixing, thinners etc. and you can't go wrong.

JR

[Greg L.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Having painted several cars, (dozens) in lacquer I just don't understand your question.

A person that is blind in one eye and can't see out of the other can shoot lacquer!

BC/CC is a pain in the backside! Guess I'm dating myself but that has been my experience.

Just following the paint manufacturer's recommendations for mixing, thinners etc. and you can't go wrong.

JR

I hear you Joe but I probably made every mistake in the book on my first attempt at shooting lacquer. One gray area was that I didn't have any proper specs.

You see I have specs for shooting lacquer with a conventional gun and I have specs for shooting modern paint with a modern HVLP compliant gun(my devilbiss plus) but I don't think they are compatible. Everyone I've talked to and taken advice from says that 2 gals of lacquer will be enough for about three coats with a bit left over for touch-ups. Well I blew through 3qts on my first coat and had LOTS of dry and rough areas that needed to be sanded down.

At first I thought I was moving too fast or had the gun too far away and to a degree that's probably true but I think the real problem was way too high a gun pressure for the thin lacquer. So then I over thinned it(about 2 1/2 to 1) for the second attempt and it was better but I also slowed down and held the gun closer and still blew through LOTS of paint.

Then a member here a short while ago turned a little light on for me. He had just sprayed his 70 coupe cortez silver with the same gun as I have but at a much lower pressure(think he was using around 22-23 but I was up around 30).

Anyways to make a long story short, I think what I was doing is over atomizing most of the paint and for the most part it was just blowing out into the air instead of going on the car.

I've learned alot about painting since that first attempt and I think I can do this when the time comes again next spring/summer. I was just really surprised and how well I did on that stupid old Dodge Caravan(that didn't really matter how it turned out) with blending the metallic BB/CC and started to wonder if I should consider that road.

I've been told over and over that lacquer is the easiest paint to shoot. I just can't understand why I had so much problem with it the first time yet no problem with a BB/CC.

If my theory of too high a gun pressure is true then I should do okay when I try it again. If I'm wrong then my next address with be from the "funny farm".

I know I touched on this topic here a few years back but to be honest I directed most of my painting questions to a different forum dedicated to just body and paint work. They were and still are a great help but maybe they missed something(except for one or two individuals, lacquer is not their paint of choice and their experience there with it is quite limited) so if anyone has any advice for helping me get a nice final coat then I'm all ears!

[Chuck S.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Ha Ha Chuck...be nice now Has it really been three years geeezz....

Oh well here's the deal. Since then I got all tooled up with a 18 cfm compressor, devilbiss gun, lighting and so forth. I acquired all the PPG lacquer that I'll need and gave it a shot(no pun intended) the summer before last. Well I wasted alot of the paint due to what now looks like way too high air pressure and too much thinner. Then I sanded quite a bit of it down and tried again. This time it was way better but had some bad spots where I had sanded through to the primer. The plan was to try again last summer but the 60 kept me too busy so I never had the chance to try it again properly thinned and at the proper pressure.

Fast forward to now... I just did my first ever metallic BC/CC blend repair on an 03 Caravan(don't ask) and I was amazed at how well it came out. It's way too shiny to pass as lacquer but I was quite please at how easy the base and then clear went on...not to mention how even the metallic is especially in the blended area. The only reason I was hung up on lacquer was because I wanted it to look proper and it was "easy" to spray. Well I seem to have had a hard time spraying it but found the BC/CC to be relatively easy. So....I was thinking that if it's not too much out of my league to make it look like lacquer, I might just go and shoot it with a BC/CC.

Sounds like I might be in over my head though so maybe I should just learn how to spray lacquer...

You know I'm only ribbing you, Greg.

Actually, as you can see from the date of that thread (the earliest of yours I could find on paint), it's only been two years and nine months. But, paint is an important decision...I wouldn't rush into a decision hastily; a little self-doubt and rethought will probably improve the choice. HaHaHa. Don't worry...time has a way of slip-slidin' away in old Corvette restoration.

I don't think the problem is the paint...I think you're just going through the "learning to paint" process using good second-hand equipment without manufacturer's literature, and that few people remember how to use properly.

It will always be easier for a novice to get good results on a small repair than on an entire vehicle. There are a lot of essential things that must be done on painting an entire vehicle that aren't necessary to paint a fender; e.g. absolute cleaniness and prep of the spray area, masking, hose control, maintaining gun distance/perpendicularity and overlap while "walking the car" to make an uninterruputed spray pass, etc., etc.

The advantage of learning how to paint with a modern paint system is that they are still making it...it's not a one shot deal, the amount of material you burn up is limited only by the amount of money you have to buy materials. Wait until you start trying to use flattener to get the jambs to appear as lacquer...in my experience, your frustration has only just begun.

Same advice as before...sand that old primer COMPLETELY OFF, and start over with a modern paint system, and probably a modern gun like a Sata gravity fed HVLP. It'll be pricey, but you can't take all that money with you. If you leave it to your kids, they would be grateful, but they'll probably think you a little nuts for not spending it yourself.

[Gene M.]

Re: Can BC/CC be made to look like lacquer?

Even the "old timers" have a more difficult time with todays lacquers. The metallics are the worst, silver, red, and silver blues heading that list. Seems the coverage is not what it was years ago. There appears to be less solids and more carrier, (clear).

Thinning it more makes it even worse. I found as was stated 22 lbs pressure works as good as your gonna get.

So with that said I can understand why you are going thru so much paint.

I agree the old lacquer is easiest to shoot. But todays stuff requires a bit more patients.