Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

[Lynn H.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

I have dismanteled alot of these cars . I have a box full of shims and some bags.

Would you please consider checking the hole sizes in some of the hardware you have, that you believe to be original, and getting back with via PM. I would appreciate anyone else with known originals doing the same if they would.
Thank you,
Lynn

[Gerard Q.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

I have dismanteled alot of these cars . I have a box full of shims and some bags.

If you have a complete set w/bag matching Dave Strickland's description I would be interested.

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

Attached is a photo of the original shims from my early '69. The rectangular shims measure 1-7/16" long by 31/32 wide. They are stamped with an oval with an "S" with a short line through it inside the oval They are slightly concave in shape from an end view. The holes measure .213" as measured with a digital caliper and by using a #3 drill. They are .200" thick. The round ones are 1-1/16" in diameter, the hole is .275" and a 17/64 drill (.265") slips through easily. They are .173" thick. Hope this helps.
Jeff

[David S.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

Ed,
A 3/8" bolt will not go into a 11/32" hole no matter how hard you try, the hole would have to be at least 3/8" (nominal). The washers I would bet were manufactured by a process known as "cold heading". This is the fastest and most productive method of producing "washers", and most all the bolts you will ever run across for just about any application that uses "standard" thread dimensions. Threads are added to nuts and bolts in what they call "secondary" operations, such as thread rolling and tapping. The standard for threads is considered to be what they call 75% engagement. For this reason if you check most bolts with a micrometer they will check lightly smaller than the nominal size. For example a 3/8" bolt (.375 dia) will check around .370. Threads on bolts such as most that we encounter are "rolled', not "cut", like internal threads would be with a tap. As a matter of fact most high volume production internal thread are made with what they call a "roll" tap. These make VERY consistent parts compared to thread cutting, or chasing (as it is called when you machine threads on the lathe) or cut with a tap or die. The holes in the washers would have been "pierced" in the cold heading operation and been very consistent. A nominal 11/32" hole may have a tolerance of +/- .005, which at the high side would be .348. A Standard 3/8" bolt at approximately .370 would still NOT fit in this hole.
Like I stated, I am very curious about this in regard to these shims. As mentioned earlier, there was certainly more than one supplier for these parts, but they should have all been working to the same print, which would make the parts only inconsistent to the extent of the tolerance provided. I doubt very seriously that the tolerance on the holes in these parts would have been 1/32". Which it would have to be for the 3/8 bolt to fit in a hole that was 11/32 (nominal size with a tolerance of plus 1/32"). That would be a HUGE tolerance when it comes to the manufacturing of fasteners in general.
I would bet the larger rectangular shims were "stamped" by a large press, that pierced the holes at the same time the outer dimensions were "cut out". Most likely making more than one with a single hit, and again pretty consistent. I am definitely going to be doing some more investigating on this subject.
Lynn

Hi Lynn
been out of town this weekend . call me tommorrow 310-329-5334
will dig out the box of shims and bags ,will try to help. thanks David

[Tom M.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

Attached is a photo of the original shims from my early '69. The rectangular shims measure 1-7/16" long by 31/32 wide. They are stamped with an oval with an "S" with a short line through it inside the oval They are slightly concave in shape from an end view. The holes measure .213" as measured with a digital caliper and by using a #3 drill. They are .200" thick. The round ones are 1-1/16" in diameter, the hole is .275" and a 17/64 drill (.265") slips through easily. They are .173" thick. Hope this helps.
Jeff

Jeff , are they natural finish as the judging manual says for 68-69 or silver plated ?
should be 4 shims and 4 washers right ?
thanks Tom

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

Tom:
They were natural steel when I removed them but I removed the rust and put a strike coat of dull zinc (CopyCad) plating on them to prevent rusting. This can be removed quickly for judging if I choose but since all are in place they really can't be seen easily. As Reba said, there were 2 rectangular and 4 round.
Jeff

[Dick W.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

I believe that Reba mistyped--it should be four and four for 1968-69.

[Tom M.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

I believe that Reba mistyped--it should be four and four for 1968-69.

Thanks Dick, that what it states in the JG

[Sal C.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

As I had mentioned to Tom previously, I've had a few original '68-9 sets in my time that were dull silver painted. Paint was spotty as if they were sprayed while they were in a roughly spread pile. Thats the way I have done them in my reproductions.

[Tom M.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

As I had mentioned to Tom previously, I've had a few original '68-9 sets in my time that were dull silver painted. Paint was spotty as if they were sprayed while they were in a roughly spread pile. Thats the way I have done them in my reproductions.

is this style shim just used for 68/69 ? 70 to ? what year is the larger shims and smaller washers used ?

[Lynn H.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

is this style shim just used for 68/69 ? 70 to ? what year is the larger shims and smaller washers used ?

Tom,
That is correct, the longer shims as I posted earlier in the thread started in 70, with the changes to the seat back locking mechanism.
Lynn

They would have been the same through 77 and all 78 (except pace cars)

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

I only had 2 oblong and 4 round so I must have lost the other 2 over the years.
Jeff

[Joseph H.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

There is good information here about the shim kits, even dimensions of the parts and bag. Now has anyone found where to get the correct washers? The kits the retailers sell do not have the correct size washers from what I have read and seen. I tried all kinds of hardware stores and the web to try and find the correct washers. You can contact a manufacturer who will make you a run to this spec for $250.00, but I only need 8 washers.
Anyone have any ideas, tring to put my kit together.
Joe

[Dave S.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

I know this subject has been beat to death,I serached the archives found many answers to this subject, and I have talked to Dave S. who has a 71 coupe with original shim bag( 5 star bowtie car),-four phosphated shims and 8 natural washers less than 1/8 thick,the bag is about 4 3/4 x6 and red stitching and yellow draw string.

Now with some of the posting Ive seen there been washers that are 1/8 thick and some that are not, the shim numbers do not always have the same and the bag sizes have been posted with many different sizes.

Lastly, the guys at paragon and the company who have reproduced these kits are swearing that the washer count is (4) 1/8 thick washers and there bag Is 4x6 that this correct through there quote extensive research. just another dilemma.

Maybe theres more than one supplier? P.S Dave if you see this , I believe your car correct.this is just a subject that I think may bring up some good for members

Ed,
There are 8 washers and 4 shims. The shims are grey phosphate and the washers are natural.

Somewhere in the TDB archives are the exact dimensions of each which I did several years ago to try to clarify things.

The origuinal bags are 4 3/4" by 6 3/4' and has the red stitching with yellow pull string. The reproduction bags were a bit smaller nand were around for a long time. In the last year or two a reproduction bag has appeared that is pretty close to originals.

One can find washers that are very close to originals (originals are 3/16" and 1/8' thick - not a full 1/8') but the reproduction shims are very detectable. The original shims have accurate rounded corners where the reproductions appear to be done with a grinding wheel (hope that makes sense).

If Paragon is representing what you say above they are mistaken. I know Sal Carbone has dealt with shims, washers and bags for years ansd is likely the best reproduction source.

I believe the whole assembly is 2 points condition and 2 points originality. Its a tough item to make deductions on unless there is something very incorrect and/or something missing.

[Reba W.]

Re: Seat Shim Kits - Again- C3

Paragon's also have the incorrect finish and someone (I think it is they) who sell only four washers in the set. I have many car owners tell me there should be four shims and four washers.