Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

[Michael G.]

Knowing it's not typical nor traditional to use, has any one used Copper Coat on Fel Pro head gaskets prior to setting the heads? What are/were the results? I know the specs on the gaskets but looking help myself on sealing BB engine. Thanks.

[Joe C.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Just to repeat my replies to you from your thread of last week, when you indicate "bubbles" from the head gasket:

How can you see the air bubbles without any liquid as a telltale.

To repeat: now is a good time to take note of TRUE SCR on the initial engine build, assuming you have not already done so! If you have sufficient "margin" before detonation occurs using ordinary pump premium, WITH TIMING MAP OPTIMIZED, in hot ambient temps, then it would behoove you to add more static compression before reinstalling the heads!!!!!
If thread sealer with teflon was used on the head bolts, then deduct 5-10 ft lbs from the recommended torque value with motor oil (or sealant without teflon) on the threads.

AND

I see that the head gasket is a FelPro 8180PT2: composition type, "Permatorque" .039" compressed thickness. Much more forgiving than the original steel shim, so there must be a GROSS imperfection in the deck near where the leak is. Did you examine the heads after they were surfaced?

I agree that putting a band aid on it is the wrong way to go. You should investigate what is causing the problem.

Depending on which side the leak is on, was #7 or #8 hole sleeved?

I would pull the heads to check all surfaces. IF YOU DECIDE TO DO THIS, AND ONLY IF YOU DO THIS, then try to get your engine to detonate before dismantling it. If it won't detonate I would consider using a thinner head gasket than what's on there now.

Mr. Gasket 5802 is a good choice.

[Michael G.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Joe,

Trying to get resolution to an issue and don't really need your humor......need help.

Secondly, don't understand what your trying to say. I'm a savvy guy, but you're suggestion is not understable. Currently am fact finding anyone's experiences using Copper Coat on a head gasket and the results. I'm pursuing taking the engine back to the builder to look at other areas as well. The Copper Coat is possibly another option I'm considering when the heads go back on.

Any thoughts out there on it's use on a head gasket . Thanks.

[Joe L.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Joe,

Trying to get resolution to an issue and don't really need your humor......need help.

Secondly, don't understand what your trying to say. I'm a savvy guy, but you're suggestion is not understable. Currently am fact finding anyone's experiences using Copper Coat on a head gasket and the results. I'm pursuing taking the engine back to the builder to look at other areas as well. The Copper Coat is possibly another option I'm considering when the heads go back on.

Any thoughts out there on it's use on a head gasket . Thanks.

Michael------


Copper coat is designed for use on steel shim-type gaskets, not composite type. For this reason, I think you will find it difficult to find anyone that's used them on composite gaskets. However, even if someone has used it on such gaskets, how would they know if it was effective? In other words, how would they know that the gasket would not have sealed just as well without the copper coat? How would they know that the copper coat didn't cause some other not readily apparent problem?

Fel-Pro Permatorque gaskets have a teflon coating on all of the non-metal surfaces. I would be concerned that the copper coat would interfere with the ability of the teflon to serve its function properly.

All composite gasket manufacturers that I know of specifically recommend that no sealer be used with composite type gaskets. I figure that they know a lot more about gaskets than "field personnel" (like us). So, I follow their recommendations and don't try to "second- guess" them.

Incidentally, you seem very concerned about using what you consider to be "band-aid" solutions. Well, in my opinion, using copper coat on a composite head gasket would fall into the category of a "band-aid" procedure, whether it was beneficial, or not.

[Michael G.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Joe,

Am incline to agree. Any engines I've built recently had no CC on head gasket.....however have not had an engine show a periodic minscule bubble from rear of engine between head and block.

Will know more when heads come off, hopefully something will reveal itself .

[Joe C.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Joe,

Trying to get resolution to an issue and don't really need your humor......need help.

Secondly, don't understand what your trying to say. I'm a savvy guy, but you're suggestion is not understable. Currently am fact finding anyone's experiences using Copper Coat on a head gasket and the results. I'm pursuing taking the engine back to the builder to look at other areas as well. The Copper Coat is possibly another option I'm considering when the heads go back on.

Any thoughts out there on it's use on a head gasket . Thanks.

OK, I removed all traces of humor from the post. Too bad about your foul mood, but I can certainly empathize.
Please indicate what you do not understand.

[Michael G.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

No foul mood here Joe C......but thanks for insinuating.

[Edward J.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Mike, leaks in a newly rebuild engine is not something i'd look forward to, I said the other day in your post, there could be a machinist error when milling the head he could of set a coarse speed , when you do get it apart be sure to look at the milling job closely, im not a machinist but I had that same problem before with a anti freeze leak after a rebuild.the fel pro gasket do have alot of forgiveness for those situations of machining problems.most of the machine shop equipment is automaded but theres a few dinasoars out there.

[Michael G.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Joe C......what's your thought on using the Mr. Gasket 5802 (head gasket) as opposed to the Fel Pro 8180 PT2.

Didn't see the heads after prep. The ocassional bubble I see is at back of engine between head and block.....(obviously) near cylinder #8. Engine has no sleeve(s). Block cleaned up easily at .030. Thanks.

[Joe C.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Joe C......what's your thought on using the Mr. Gasket 5802 (head gasket) as opposed to the Fel Pro 8180 PT2.

Didn't see the heads after prep. The ocassional bubble I see is at back of engine between head and block.....(obviously) near cylinder #8. Engine has no sleeve(s). Block cleaned up easliy at .030. Thanks.

I have good luck with the ultraseal head gaskets. The Mr. Gasket is .001 thinner, but has a bigger bore size, to accommodate a 4.50 bore. This will drop SCR slightly, but gives you the option of enlarging the valve reliefs in your block, if you so desire.
The point I have been trying to make with you, from the very beginning, is: now is the time to determine whether or not any adjustments are needed to your SCR. An accurate determination, made BEFORE you remove the heads for inspection, will allow you to adjust chamber size/shape, valve reliefs, head gasket thickness before re-assembly.

[Roger W.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Please let us know if you find anything wrong. Any one of us could have one of those poltergeists in rebuilding our old engines.

[Michael G.]

Re: Copper on Fel Pro head gasket?

Joe C. and I had a good conversation late Friday night regarding different procedures I might persue:

• Cylinder leak down check/verification
• Pressure check the head
• Cylinder compression verification/check
• Using a different manufacturers head gasket...Mr. Gasket or possibly Victor head gaskets
• New ARP head bolts....pitching the old ones

This is over and above checking the engine deck and head for issues as well. Although the issue being right side of engine both sides will get new head gaskets.