Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

[Terry M.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Terry.....Bars Leak . Please explain. Thanks.

That is a brand name of a sealing product that can be added to the cooling system to seal leaks. It is available at your FLAPS (Friendly Local Automotive Parts Store). Some folks regard it as a Bubba fix, but Chevrolet added it to all their cooling systems in the 90s, and for all I know still does.

It gives us fits in the Gen II LT1s because that system has a flow retractor in the heater circuit, and those pellets will clog that retractor. That should not be a problem in your system, and if it bothers you == after running it for a while, say four or five heat/cool cycles, flush the cooling system.

[Michael G.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

I am a low tech kind of guy. If retorque didn't work I wouldn't hesitate to throw some Bars Leak in it and se what happens. Only if that didn't work would I take it down.

This sounds like a product I many...many years ago called Silver Sodder

[Terry M.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

I am not familiar with that one, but Bars Leak has the market cornered now days. It does work. I have used it a couple of times. I think it is a wax that melts under coolant temperatures and hardens when it finds air. I wouldn't run it all the time, like Chevrolet and Cadillac did, but it does have a purpose, and this sounds like it may be one of those times.

[Jim T.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Michael since Terry has already mentioned it I will comment on adding something to the coolant system.
In my 96 LT4's owners manual on page 6-26 it says to use GM Engine Coolant Supplement (sealer) (GM part No. 3634621) with any coolant change.

This supplement is a blister pack of 6 tablets that disolve in the coolant. The same tablets are available at FLAPS and is called BAR'S LEAKS professional strength formula radiator stop leak and conditioner.

I have used GM's blister pack once and BAR'S LEAKS tablets once in my original owner 96 LT4's coolant changes. And will again in the next coolant change. I also use distilled water and recommended coolant.

I bought a 96 Monte Carlo from a co-worker that told me it was losing coolant but he could not find any on the ground. I changed the oil before I bought it to verify no coolant in the oil. Bought it, changed the coolant and added the BAR'S LEAKS tablets. The Monte's owners manual also stated to use the tablets with a coolant change. No more coolant loss after the coolant change and added supplement tablets. It had 77K on it, now has 122K.
The Chevrolet dealer had done a coolant change on the Monte a few years before I bought it. I took the invoice and asked the service writer if they installed the recommended GM supplements tablets when the coolant was changed. He did not know what I was talking about.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

i have been told the bars leak is ground up ginger root.

[Terry M.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

In the old days we used to throw a half-cup of ground black pepper in the radiator, but that was back when there was winter and summer coolant (but we didn't call it coolant) and you had to change between them as the seasons changed.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

In the old days we used to throw a half-cup of ground black pepper in the radiator, but that was back when there was winter and summer coolant (but we didn't call it coolant) and you had to change between them as the seasons changed.

black pepper works as i watched a farmer use some in his tractor to stop the leak when i was working on the farm as a kid. $1 a day and 3 meals and it was hard work.

[John D.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Bars leak would be good for my sons POC 96 Ford Taurus but I wouldn't want to use it to as a "patch" for a problem in our expensive toys. I would want to get to the root of the problem and fix it.

Like Clem I always use Permatex #3H aviation on the studs and a lot of other places. Now if I lived in CA though I wouldn't be able to buy the stuff.
I am starting to worry that some day in the near future there won't be any more Perm #3. That's why I am stocking up. JD

[Michael H.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

I am starting to worry that some day in the near future there won't be any more Perm #3. That's why I am stocking up. JD

Michael

I think if it were mine, I would remove the head and see what's going on in there. There shouldn't be a need for any kind of sealer to seal a composition head gasket, especially in that area.
I thought most/all current composition gaskets today required no hot retorque?? I wouldn't exceed the factory recommended torque values.

Hey JD. Yer what.. about 66 now? I wouldn't get too excited about how many more years Permatex will be available if I were that old.

[John D.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Michael

I think if it were mine, I would remove the head and see what's going on in there. There shouldn't be a need for any kind of sealer to seal a composition head gasket, especially in that area.
I thought most/all current composition gaskets today required no hot retorque?? I wouldn't exceed the factory recommended torque values.

Hey JD. Yer what.. about 66 now? I wouldn't get too excited about how many more years Permatex will be available if I were that old.

Hey Cranky, You ain't far behind. Meanwhile just ordered two more cans of #3.
JD will be 67 in March. Whew!!!!

[Joe L.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Michael since Terry has already mentioned it I will comment on adding something to the coolant system.
In my 96 LT4's owners manual on page 6-26 it says to use GM Engine Coolant Supplement (sealer) (GM part No. 3634621) with any coolant change.

This supplement is a blister pack of 6 tablets that disolve in the coolant. The same tablets are available at FLAPS and is called BAR'S LEAKS professional strength formula radiator stop leak and conditioner.

I have used GM's blister pack once and BAR'S LEAKS tablets once in my original owner 96 LT4's coolant changes. And will again in the next coolant change. I also use distilled water and recommended coolant.

I bought a 96 Monte Carlo from a co-worker that told me it was losing coolant but he could not find any on the ground. I changed the oil before I bought it to verify no coolant in the oil. Bought it, changed the coolant and added the BAR'S LEAKS tablets. The Monte's owners manual also stated to use the tablets with a coolant change. No more coolant loss after the coolant change and added supplement tablets. It had 77K on it, now has 122K.
The Chevrolet dealer had done a coolant change on the Monte a few years before I bought it. I took the invoice and asked the service writer if they installed the recommended GM supplements tablets when the coolant was changed. He did not know what I was talking about.

Jim and Terry------


Yes, the idea of adding the coolant tabs is a good one that I should have also suggested. Most later model GM owner's and service manuals do not recommend the use of these tabs, they REQUIRE IT! I used to think of this sort of product as being a "bubba-type fix". After I read a little closer in the GM owner's and service manuals, I thought differently about this. I always use the GM-specified product now. It's still available from GM under the 3634621 part number.

[Michael H.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Jim and Terry------


Yes, the idea of adding the coolant tabs is a good one that I should have also suggested.

Joe

Cooling system "sealing compound" was added to new Corvettes at the St Louis assembly plant, at least through the 60's and I assume beyond. The compound was in the form of "capsules" or "pellets". There was/is a GM part number for each.
The sealing compound was mostly for sealing hose connections but it would also attempt to seal anything else that may have had a slight leak.

[Joe L.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

All,

Spoke with my machinist today and as suspected he did indeed use sealant when bolting the heads to the block. With what I'm hearing from some of you we're looking at taking the "low road" approach" and re-torquing the heads....however didn't seem to be too comfortable re-torquing 5 ft. lbs above torque spec. Indicated there's potential to pull threads....40 + year old block. I'll give this a try and see what results are achieved. It's an unusual situation.

Michael------


As I mentioned, the GM torque values for almost all fasteners are specified as a RANGE, not a specific number. However, the range is not published in service or overhaul manuals. For critical engine fasteners, like head bolts and main bearing cap bolts, the range is usually much narrower than for other less critical fasteners, but there still exists a range, not just a specific number.

Although you won't find it in service or overhaul manuals, the RANGE for small block head bolts is 60-70 lb/ft, while service and overhaul manuals specify 65 lb/ft. So, if the heads were originally torqued to 65 lb/ft, that torque can be increased by 5 lb/ft (as I previously suggested) without putting you out of the GM-specified torque RANGE. Of course, you want to make sure that you are using a PROPERLY CALIBRATED torque wrench when any of this is done. In fact, if the torque wrench originally used to torque the head bolts was "off", it could have even resulted in INSUFFICIENT torque being applied to the bolts (i.e. below 60 lb/ft).

Incidentally, for those interested, the head bolt torque RANGE for cast iron big block heads is 75-85 lb/ft, with a service and overhaul manual-specified value of 80 lb/ft.

[Joe L.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Joe

Cooling system "sealing compound" was added to new Corvettes at the St Louis assembly plant, at least through the 60's and I assume beyond. The compound was in the form of "capsules" or "pellets". There was/is a GM part number for each.
The sealing compound was mostly for sealing hose connections but it would also attempt to seal anything else that may have had a slight leak.

Michael-----


Yes, the capsules were a gelatin capsule containing the powdered sealant. The pellets were a "pelletized" form of the same material. The part numbers were PRODUCTION-only and never available in SERVICE. However, the 3634621 are the same and is the part number for the SERVICE-available package of tabs. As far as I know, the gelatin capsules were not available from GM in SERVICE. However, I have seen them available in the aftermarket.

Later, GM also had available smaller size tabs for SERVICE (but required the addition of more of them). I think the reason for this might have been the smaller size filler openings for some later model cars.

By the way, if someone is doing a 100%, totally correct restoration of a car, it's not correct unless the cooling system sealant tabs are installed.

[Terry M.]

Re: Fel Pro head gaskets compared to Victor

Only slightly off topic long story:

Years ago, when I was NTL, I had a chance to closely examine a 1970 LS5 with 1100 miles. That is no misprint – 1100 miles. As you might expect there is a much longer story behind that number. The car was in the hands of the second owner, and although he was not an NCRS member, he was more anal than most here.

There were some unusual features beyond the low miles to this car, but it was as original as sin and if there was ever any car that would break my "There are no Corvette virgins" mantra -- this was the one.

Now you probably want me to get to the point. OK, but I had to tell you what I was looking at. When I arrived (a 4.5 hour trip from home, and in a different time zone) the hood was off and the radiator was about to come out. To say I was horrified is an understatement. I had traveled all that distance and the Bozo is taking an 1100 mile car apart. Fortunately I didn’t say anything, but I am sure my face betrayed my feelings.

As the story unfolded over several hours and rolls of film, the car had had a persistent coolant leak on hot soak -- the engine shut off after being at operating temperature. One of the radiator tanks had a leak at the solder joint to the core. The radiator cap was an RC1 (???). Yep. I have the photos on old paper prints to prove it. Looking down the side-tank through the fill opening one could clearly see a build-up of scummy wax.

My analysis: The radiator leaked at St. Louis. The "service" department there (or whatever it was called) put on the RC1 (I think it was a 5 psi or maybe 3 psi cap IIRC) and threw in a bunch of these sealing things and called it good. "Let the dealer fix it."

Isn't life grand?