Two Starter Nose Designs

[Patrick N.]

I read some past threads on starter nose designs and it seems there are a few varieties of nose designs and paint / finishes.

I have two starters: one nose is on a 1107355, and one is on a 1107365. Each has slightly different casting designs. Both are 67' dates.

If you notice, one is more "rounded" overall; one is more "angular".

I have a 68' L68 no AC, trying to get to a correct starter:

1. Are either nose designs correct?
2. Is there any consensus if the cast iron nose is painted or left natural?

Thanks!

Pat
68 427 / 400
88

[Joe L.]

Re: Two Starter Nose Designs

I read some past threads on starter nose designs and it seems there are a few varieties of nose designs and paint / finishes.

I have two starters: one nose is on a 1107355, and one is on a 1107365. Each has slightly different casting designs. Both are 67' dates.

If you notice, one is more "rounded" overall; one is more "angular".

I have a 68' L68 no AC, trying to get to a correct starter:

1. Are either nose designs correct?
2. Is there any consensus if the cast iron nose is painted or left natural?

Thanks!

Pat
68 427 / 400
88

Patrick------


There were 3 different cast iron starter nose housings used on Corvettes over the 1966 through 1981 period.

1966-67 Corvettes with 427 (except 1967 L-88) used starter GM #1107365. Starter GM #1107365 was originally equipped with starter nose housing GM# 1965721. Attached are photos of an NOS GM #1965721 starter nose housing.

Were all GM #1965721 starter nose housings identical with respect to every nuance of detail? I doubt it since I think these noses were cast by several different non-GM foundries. However, the photos attached are of a known GM #1965721 nose housing.

Starter noses for cast iron nose starters were usually painted with the rest of the starter. The only exposed portion was that portion of the nose which would normally reside inside the bellhousing. In fact, the nose pictured demonstrates how the nose was painted.

Incidentally, the starter nose pictured is rather unusual for a SERVICE nose. Most SERVICE noses were not painted. Very early pieces, such as this one, were.

The GM #1965721 was discontinued in October, 1969 and replaced by the GM #1969309. So, this nose is at least 40 years old.

[Patrick N.]

Re: Two Starter Nose Designs

Thanks Joe,

Is there a location on the nose that has the part #?

It looks like the natural nose in my pics is close in appearance to the 1965721 you are showing.

I think this is the one I will use moving forward and try to match finish.

Thanks Again as always!

Pat
68 427 /400
88

[Joe L.]

Re: Two Starter Nose Designs

Thanks Joe,

Is there a location on the nose that has the part #?

It looks like the natural nose in my pics is close in appearance to the 1965721 you are showing.

I think this is the one I will use moving forward and try to match finish.

Thanks Again as always!

Pat
68 427 /400
88

Pat------


There are no GM part numbers on any starter nose I've ever seen regardless of whether it's a cast iron nose or an aluminum nose. On cast iron noses there are sometimes a 2 or 3 digit string of characters. For example, the nose I pictured has "211". I don't know what these denote. They do not appear to be a derivative of any complete part number. Plus, they are not found on all castings, only some.

[Tom P.]

Re: Two Starter Nose Designs

While we're on the subject of cast iron starter noses, I would like to interject some added info that MANY, MANY people are completely unaware of.
If ANY 63-later Chevy V8 engine (or even a 63-later 6cyl engine) has a BIG flywheel/flexplate with 168 teeth, then a starter nose with staggered bolt pattern MUST be used. If the vehicle has has a manual tranny flywheel (168 teeth), then ONLY a CAST IRON nose with the staggered bolt pattern will work. An alum starter nose with a staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT into the starter bulge of a 444 or 621 bell housing!!!!!!!!!!
The alum nose with a staggered bolt pattern ONLY FITS an auto tranny housing. But the cast iron nose will fit EITHER a manual tranny housing or an auto tranny housing.

The 55-62 flywheels were ONLY the big, 168 teeth version and the bell housings (iron or alum) were the open bottom style and the starter nose (iron ONLY) had 3 horizontal holes which attached it directly to the bell housing.
Chevy trucks, up to about 70, still used the open bottom style bell housing and a starter mounted to the housing.

[Joe L.]

Re: Two Starter Nose Designs

While we're on the subject of cast iron starter noses, I would like to interject some added info that MANY, MANY people are completely unaware of.
If ANY 63-later Chevy V8 engine (or even a 63-later 6cyl engine) has a BIG flywheel/flexplate with 168 teeth, then a starter nose with staggered bolt pattern MUST be used. If the vehicle has has a manual tranny flywheel (168 teeth), then ONLY a CAST IRON nose with the staggered bolt pattern will work. An alum starter nose with a staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT into the starter bulge of a 444 or 621 bell housing!!!!!!!!!!
The alum nose with a staggered bolt pattern ONLY FITS an auto tranny housing. But the cast iron nose will fit EITHER a manual tranny housing or an auto tranny housing.

The 55-62 flywheels were ONLY the big, 168 teeth version and the bell housings (iron or alum) were the open bottom style and the starter nose (iron ONLY) had 3 horizontal holes which attached it directly to the bell housing.
Chevy trucks, up to about 70, still used the open bottom style bell housing and a starter mounted to the housing.

Tom-----


Yes, that's good information. I was pretty sure that the staggered pattern, aluminum nose would not work with manual trans, 168 tooth applications. In fact, a week ago, or so, I asked in another thread if anyone had any information contrary to this but I got no responses.

I believe the aluminum, staggered bolt nose did not come into use until the 1970 model year. From that time on, it was used for all Corvette THM applications.

[Patrick N.]

Re: Two Starter Nose Designs

Tom and Joe...
Great info and detail on this subject. My BB requires the cast iron nose, but I was not sure if an aluminum nose was interchangeable.

For fun I attached a before & after pic of my "almost complete" motor. Just need alternator and it will be "close to complete". They are never really complete are they?

Thanks again.
Pat 68 427 / 400
88

[Tom P.]

Re: Two Starter Nose Designs

Pat,
The alum nose with a staggered bolt pattern is just enough to big to fit back into the starter bulge of a 444/621 style bell housing. That's why a cast iron nose is required for a 444/621 housing. It is POSSIBLE to trim out some of the bulge of a 444 or 621 housing to allow the alum starter nose to fit, but then you would be putting an ugly hole in the bell housing for no good reason. Starter noses are TOOOOOOOOO EASY to swap around from one starter to another.
And, to take this one step further, I used a 403 bell housing (bell housing for a small flywheel) and BIG, 168 teeth flywheel and alum nose staggered starter nose on the engine in my jet boat. I took a die grinder with a cutoff wheel and cut out a BIG notch from the bottom of the 403 housing and then cut out most of the starter bulge from the 403 housing to accomodate the starter. Been like that for about 35yrs, ZERO problems. Since it is way down in the back of the boat, it cannot be seen. My point is, almost anything can be made (forced) to work with just a little ingenuity! Oh ya, and this is not a "numbers matching" boat, even though the name on the back is WETTE Vette.