Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

[Clark K.]

I was surprised at the Lone Star Regional when the judge told me that he was deducting condition points on my BRAND NEW (almost) repro tar-top battery. I expected a small deduction due to the battery NOT having any actual tar on top, but not condition point deductions. What he showed me, when I asked for clarification, were a few small cracks on the top of the battery. This alarmed me. What causes this and what should I do about it? -Clark

[Jim T.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

How many points were a small deduction?

[Nicholas L.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

I lost 7 originality points at the Marlboro Regional last month because the Restoration Battery did not have the real tar top. No losss for condition.

[Clark K.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

How many points were a small deduction?

Jim, I am trying to remember since I don't yet have my scoring sheets back. They are not due for another week, I believe. I think it was 3 condition points, for the cracking. I was really surprised. In the morning entrants' meeting, Roy Sinor asked us not to dispute small 1-3 point deductions. So, I tried to be on my best behavior.

One of the Mechanical Section judges offered that he thought the battery may have been overcharged. I am now worrying whether my alternator is acting up or whether my Lectric Limited battery trickle charger is causing the cracking. -Clark

[Chris E.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

I'm really disappointed that the NCRS has taken the position that the restoration battery is a SEVEN POINT DEDUCT. That is huge. On my way to Duntov, other than paint, that will be my largest deduction by a LANDSLIDE. And there is nothing I or anyone else can do about that. You can't buy a battery that meets the judging standard.

Very frustrating.

Sure, take a deduct if you see something not quite right, but SEVEN? Jeeze. The section is 25 points. How about a 3 point deduct instead?

7 points is a 28% deduct for a part that is probably 90-95% correct. Seems harsh to me.

(flame suit on)

[Dave S.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

I'm really disappointed that the NCRS has taken the position that the restoration battery is a SEVEN POINT DEDUCT. That is huge. On my way to Duntov, other than paint, that will be my largest deduction by a LANDSLIDE. And there is nothing I or anyone else can do about that. You can't buy a battery that meets the judging standard.

Very frustrating.

Sure, take a deduct if you see something not quite right, but SEVEN? Jeeze. The section is 25 points. How about a 3 point deduct instead?

7 points is a 28% deduct for a part that is probably 90-95% correct. Seems harsh to me.

(flame suit on)

Chris,
If you go back a few Restorer issues you will see how that tar top issue is solved. There is a well written article on how to make that go away. Its amazing what we can learn from articles that members write.

[Jim R.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

I agree 7 is alot for such a nice piece.

[Terry M.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

Let's see 4500 points + 10 for battery cut off, NCRS sticker & fire extinguisher = 4510
7 points is LESS than 0.2 %

How HUGE is that?

I guess I am missing something.

[Steven N.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

Clark,

The standard deduction for no tar is 7 points, besides it isn't a tar top if it doesn't have tar. The article for modifieing the battery is very good. The only thing I change is I add a tablespoon of motor oil to the tar and mix. The oil gives it a better consistency and pouring. I learned this from a company that still makes tar top battery's. I have done several lately and they have passed.If I can help more, let me know, and good luck !............

[Chris E.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

Chris,
If you go back a few Restorer issues you will see how that tar top issue is solved. There is a well written article on how to make that go away. Its amazing what we can learn from articles that members write.

It was explained to me that the reason for the deduction had nothing to do with whether it had tar or not. It had to do with the number of "eyes" on the side of the battery and the contour of the top lip of the battery. Unless I'm missing something, I doubt adding tar to the top of the battery would solve that.

Does the restorer article talk about modifying the eyes and the top lip?

[Chris E.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

Let's see 4500 points + 10 for battery cut off, NCRS sticker & fire extinguisher = 4510
7 points is LESS than 0.2 %

How HUGE is that?

I guess I am missing something.

It is huge when you're headed for Duntov. You can afford to lose 135 points. 7 points out of 135 is 5%. That's big, especially when compared to every other deduction I took being less than 4 (except for tires and paint).

[William D.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

In Sept @ NE Regional, -0- deduct, it's a year old with tar

[Jack H.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

SEVEN POINT DEDUCT. That is huge.

Well, let's talk about that...

You can't buy a battery that meets the judging standard.

Yes, you can, but they're getting VERY HARD to find! I know a fellow in London, England who has SEVEN of the original tar tops sitting 'dead' in his garage. They CAN be disassembled and rebuilt...

So, when a judge encounters one who's gone to this kind of extreme to make his restoration 'correct', you're saying he should get virtually no extra credit for the effort, eh?

Sure, take a deduct if you see something not quite right, but SEVEN? Jeeze. The section is 25 points. How about a 3 point deduct instead?

So, we should 'negotiate' point deductions that are spelled out in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual now? The book has instructed judges to take a 30% originality deduction for reproduction batteries that "differ from original design and construction in minor detail" for MANY years...

7 points is a 28% deduct for a part that is probably 90-95% correct. Seems harsh to me.

Nobody said the road to Mark of Excellence was easy nor did anyone say you can get there by simply writing a check for this/that reproduction part. Plus, NCRS didn't hold a gun to your head telling you what to do/how to do your restoration.

In the absense of specific scoring guidelines and Standard Deduction advice, judges are taught to split the universe of originalty along five axis (Finish, Date, Installation, Configuration, and Completeness). Lacking the real deal tar, there goes Configuration (20%) AND Finish (another 20%). So, one could argue that the 30% standard deduction is actually generous...

In the end, others HAVE climbed the mountain and captured the award with the same, or similar, battery.

[Jaime G.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

Chris, if you are interested and shop accordingly, you can buy original tar tops and have them rebuilt. I have 3 in my possesion which I have purchased thru the driveline, in Hemmings, and at Carlisle. If you must have original, they are still around. Two of them are not original Delco but Gurdjian which are almost perfect and undetectable. The deduction may seem unfair to you but its within the established guidelines.

[Chris E.]

Re: Restoration Battery Took Condition Deduction

I don't think 67 needs a tar top. There isn't any mention of it in the judging guide.

Forget I said anything about the 7 point deduct.