exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

[Robert S.]

Resonators are listed on judging sheet as a 4 point deduction for orig and 4 points for condition. Does one lose 8 points if not part of the pipes? 74's had them. I haven't seen ANY exhaust pipes or systems available with them. Anyone know of a company making pipes with them or would they not be judged or exception made due to non-availability.

-also aluminized pipes lose original points? (originals were steel)

-are correct '74 extensions longer style (almost facing down) or short curved? I've seen both offered. Thanks for any help here.

[Dick W.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

An item must garnish at least 10% originality points to receive any condition points. For an item missing, the deduction would be 100% originality and 100% condition. In your example 8 total points deducted

[Don G.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

To my knowledge, no one is making the resonators. Because it was used on '74 only, I doubt if any one will. They rarely come up on Ebay.

To your other point, no exceptions are made in the judging process based on lack of availability. However, this is offset by the fact that you only need 94% for Top Flight and 97% for the Duntov.

[Bill C.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Give JT Piper a call - he had a set of NOS L/R 4spd mid pipes with the resonators.

1-800-637-6111.

[Robert S.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Thanks for the info. what would the 8 points for no resonators bring me down to? Is it worth it to spend 1000. for these pipes (steel) God, I picked the wrong year car. I would think there are few correct 74's. I also need urethane rear bumper covers....another one year fortune item. know of any? I want to replace the glass "seam" repro. I don't think I want the two piece flex repro. It's 500. Might be worth it to spring for nos urethane if I could find em. missed a stored nos set on ebay last month! 1200.

[Bill C.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Trust me - 1974 is not EVEN close to the worse year for correct parts!!!

How about a $1400 carb for a 1972 454 4spd

Welcome to the hobby -

====

You could always try getting a set of resonators that are correct in size and have a muffler shop weld them in the correct area on a repro exhaust system.

I would look at the #1 condition value of the car. If getting these NOS correct parts + what you have already spent, is going to put you over it, then you may want to reconsider. Also - are you looking for a 99% Top Flight or a passing Top Flight. One will cost you "A BUTT LOAD" less than the other......

My 2 cents.

[Robert S.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Bill-
What is a passing top flight? ordered the judging manuals last week. waiting for them. checked out the judging forms today on-line on the site. I just bought this car by the way, My first Corvette...waited way too long. Been into Corvairs and Vegas for a long time.

I checked the market value of a 74 350 Coupe in Corvette magazine 68-82 market guide (march 09)
18000. good 22,000 show-ready. includes a/c

(Your 72 454 Coupe is listed at 31,200. good 47,000 show-ready! and add 3k for a/c)

I've seen a '74 454 Coupe bid up to 20k..total body off (didn't meet reserve) market guide says another 5k for big-block. (27,000 show-ready) There are few restored 350 74's and I haven't seen any body off 74 350's for sale yet. I've checked back 90 days (ebay)
Most 73 or later C3's for sale, especially on Craigs list, are "drivers"- $4000-$10000.

I'm planning a body on (for a start) new lacquer, interior, smog, urethane bumpers (ouch)
Original L-48 motor and powertrain- previous owner had motor/cluch rebuilt (84k)

Saw a nice red restored (body on?) '74 350 auto sell on ebay for 14,900 (the highest price sale on a 74 small block)
If I figure the value of my car (with a body-on restoration) based on that sale of 14,900... It's well under the 18,000 market guide for good and that car was closer to show ready. I think these price guides might be high or the cars avaiable for sale don't measure up to the price projections..not sure which.

I'm planning on spending about 15,000. total with price I paid for the car (this leaves me 8500 for paint, interior and misc) A mechanical restoration (excluding the powertrain rebuild already done by previous owner)) will bring me up to about 18,000 (current "good" value) I don't know if I'd go higher than that even though show ready value is listed at 22,000. (The 74 big block body off high bid was 20k and value listed at 27k) so I'm not sure I should spend more than 15k total for mine unless I plan on keeping it.... instead of trading up for my (earlier) C3 favorite..a 68/69 T-top 350. But 68/69 small blocks under $10,000 are mostly poor condition and restored ones are now in the high twenties to start!
The 74 is my first Corvette..might be my last. Any later model C3's I don't like the changes made to the cars. (catalytic converter, fastback window, interior changes) and any earlier (68-72) are getting too pricey for me.

Seems red is fairly rare in C3's. (2,000 approx out of 30,000+ 74 production and black interior even rarer with the red exterior..most (for sale anyway) are tan inside. and of course 4-speed only 30% of 74 production. I think it's the most desirable color combo which along with the 4-speed were my main preferences.It does have AC! It's missing some options (p/w-don't care, leather-I like the standard interior anyway, Tilt-don't care doesn't help steering wheel location before '77)...its equipped more like an earlier 68-70 car. Comfortweave interior is exactly the same as the standard 70 interior.
these 73-77's (as well as most C3's) will continue to go up 5% per year according to market value article but I don't see the numbers being paid, on ebay at least. most cars don't meet reserve. Only big blocks seem to bring out the high bidders.
Bob

[Glenn D.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

What is your source for production #'s (# of red cars ) ? I was under the impression that there weren't any records for the # of cars built with certain exterior colors and interior colors.

[Robert S.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Source is C3 Vette Registry (Research)
If you figure the increase in production from 71-75 you could estimate 73 and 74 Millie Miglie red cars to be between 2,600-3,200 per year. probably no more than that based on the pattern of color increase shown below. I haven't compared the total production increases. (74/75 total production was close..it leveled off if I recall even though 75 ragtops were lower) 74 total had a big jump from 73 total though.

Millie Miglie Red
71 2180
72 2478
73 n/a
74 n/a
75 3355

[Bill C.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

A passing Top Flight is 94%
Each percentage point is worth 45 points, you have a total of 270 deduction points before you you become a 2nd Flight candiate.

You need to read the TJM VERY closely as well as getting your hands on a set of scoring sheets for your year.

The scoring sheets are broken into:
Operations
Exterior
Interior
Mechanical
Chasis

The points are broken into:
Condition
Originality

The system is for deductions, so when you are judged the 1st time you will see points taken off.

Operations can kill you bad - you need to be sure that everything works as installed and delivered by GM in 1974. Some line items are worth 25 points each and are a single item. Some are worth the same # of points but may include 2-3 components - each being worth a percentage of the 25.


IMHO..... I would take your car to a Chapter (Regional if you can) and have it judged one time as it is. Then you will have a really good bit of information. You can see how good/bad the car is in the eyes on NCRS.
It will also give you a punch list - items needing fixing. You should be able to put a close price on achieving a Top Flight at this point.

[Glenn D.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Robert

I have a Med. Red 1974 L48 4 speed convertible with standard interior. How many of those do you estimate were built ?

[Robert S.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Glen-
38475 74 total production
5474 74 conv't production

Now let's check it two ways it comes out the same = 131

example 1-
5474 total conv'ts x 30% 4-speed production = 1642 4 -speed convertibles
1642 4 speed conv'ts x 8% med red production = 131

example 2-
5474 total conv'ts x 8% med red production = 437 med red convertibles
437 med red convts x 30% 4-speed production = 131

so there were 1642 4-speed convertibles and 437 med red convertibles
of which there were 131 med red/4-speed convertibles

details-
start with color med red ('75-'74 n/a) 8% of total production (3078) We'll figure the same amount for 74 since 74 and 75 had very close production figures.
437 convertables in med red (8% of convertible production)

437 x 30% 4 speeds 131 = med red 4-speeds

aprrox 100-160 '74 med red 4-speed convertibles
You can SAFLEY assume there were under 200 built (out of 5474 total convertibles) No way to be exact since there is no breakdown on color according to transmission or body style, only on total production however you can assume 4-speeds were generally built in flashier colors like reds. these numbers also assume the same 30% 4-speed production on convertibles. It might well have been less like 25%

Bob

[Michael W.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Glen-
38475 74 total production
5474 74 conv't production

start with color med red ('75-'74 n/a) 8% of total production (3078) We'll figure the same amount for 74 since 74 and 75 had very close production figures.
437 convertables in med red (8% if convertible production)

437 x 30% 4 speeds 131 = med red 4-speeds

aprrox 100-160 '74 med red 4-speed convertibles
You can safely assume there were under 250 built (out of 5474 total convertibles) No way to be exact since there is no breakdown on color according to transmission, only on total production however you can assume 4-speeds were generally built in flashier colors like reds. the above 131 figure is assuming the color ratio to transmission is the same as the color ratio to total production about 8%
Bob

I used the same 'science' of extrapolation and concluded that my car is actually less than one of one. Try to beat that.

Spending a lot of money on a mid-C3 car to maker it more valuable is rarely a wise investment. As others have said, have it judged at a chapter meet before you get too far ahead of yourself. Throw away the price guides, they've been predicting 'big increases' for mid C3 prices for the last 20+ years. I'm still waiting.

[Robert S.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Michael-
I agree C3's are worth less than Camaros! Why? I'm not sure why 67-69 and now 70 1/2 Camaros continue to out-price Corvettes. It must be the big-block/SS/Z28 thing. Muscle Car rep. Corvettes are sports cars first...probably less appeal for the Muscle car (5/6-seater fan) It might just be because of that..Where to put the kids on the way to the car show? Prices for Camaros and Chevelles are insane. I would never spend 25,000-35,000 for a 60's/70's Chevelle or a Camaro. I don't care what the hp is or the quarter mile specs are on an SS or Z/28. Corvettes are plenty fast....even the 70's C3's. A modest, stock 185 hp '76 moves 0-60 in 6.8 seconds (76 car and driver road test) impressive or what? A 76 Malibu with that same 350 engine needs 11 seconds to move to 60. Point is Corvettes managed to stay relatively fast cars even at the low point for performance-the 70's. There really wasn't anything faster during this period. Corvette survived after all the mucsle cars died. Bravo Chevrolet!!! Chevy showed which car they really cared about and nursed it through the 70's and it was most popular in that period to this day!

The C2 is a hard act to follow for the C3. Very desirable and more rare. But our C3 cars are a great bargin and the best looking (I feel) Vettes to boot. With so many Corvette generations the C3's have and now the C4's will take the hit. All generations go up 5% per year (except current C6's and C5's of course which are in the depreciation cycle) C3's will never catch earlier cars except for the special limited big blocks. At the same time, you never know what the future desirables will be. An original or properly restored C3 will always be in demand...maybe the gap will start to close as more C3 surviviors and drivers are restored and C2's continue to climb out of reach to many buyers. I believe this has already started... more C3 restorations that is. Asking prices are up. Buyers need to adjust to the C3's changing status. For years it was considered the drivers generation. That distinction is being rightfully transferred to the 80's C4's as they've bottomed out. C3's are on the move....Most of the 70's drivers bought for 4,000-10,000 today are being restored and will sell for decent money tomorrow. I mentioned the 74 350/automatic Coupe sold on ebay for 15000. this month.. decent money...but the car was really beautiful and only a body on restoration.
Top bid on a body off 74 454 Coupe was 20,000...a bit light and didn't meet reserve. Don't forget where in tough times right now. Money is tight.

Mike is your car a one off color if there was one?

[Michael W.]

Re: exhaust resonators/tailpipe extensions-judging question

Mike is your car a one off color if there was one?

If you mean 'one year only', then yes.