NCRS Flight Judging and tires
I am new to having my car judged (although I have the books and all), so I would like to know about the tires issue. According to my window sticker and order, my '66 L79 coupe came with the gold stripe tires. It currently has Coker Radials of the original size. They need to be replaced and I can't find Coker ones, so I have ordered B.F.Goodrich gold stripe radials that are just being built. They are the original size, same as the Cokers. I looked at the judging manual and it is confusing about deductions. If you have B.F. Goodrich gold stripe radials with the original size and stripe dimensions, what is the deduction? Is it the same as Cokers? Thanks for any info.
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Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico -
Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Michael, welcome to the wonderful world of worrying over every NCRS deduction. I do the same. These beautiful cars deserve no less.
I don't have the '66 JG but my '65 JG says that only Firestone and Goodyear supplied the gold stripe tires for the '65 model. Check this in your '66 JG.
I looked on page 21 of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual and it states that there should be a 10% originality deduction for correct OEM brand and size tires that have the typical DOT number. If your tires are correct in every manner except for the modern DOT number molded into the tire near the bead (hidden side of tire, as mounted), a 10% originality deduction will be made. For a '65, that would be a total of "only 3" out of 30 originality points. If the repro tires are at least like-new, there should be none of the 30 condition points deducted. Therefore, 3 points out of 60 "ain't bad" for correct repro tires.
I am having my car Flight judged this coming weekend at the Lone Star Regional. My biggest concern is not tires but a T-3 headlight burning out right before the ops judging. -Clark -
Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Michael and Clark,
The standard originality deduction would be 60 per cent in the hypothetical case that BFG was an OEM Goldline brand for 1966, AND if the new BFG radials have a 3/8" wide stripe as original. Your new tires will be considered: .........."current day service replacement size, bias or radial ply of current equivalent sizing designation and correct whitewall width". Your original tires were 7.75-15, and today's equivalent radial tire size is 205/75R-15. This also means that you'll receive 100 per cent condition points for the new tires.
If width of stripe, or size differs from above, then there will be a 100 per cent originality deduction. A 100 per cent condition deduction goes along with any deduction of 90 per cent or more originality deduction.
I, like Michael, do not have a 1966 Manual. If BFG did not manufacture the Goldlines for 1966 (as I suspect they did not), then the deduction will be 75 per cent for "..non OEM brand.........".Last edited by Joe C.; October 12, 2009, 02:43 PM.Comment
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Michael,
What Clark has identified as a standard deduction when judging tires, e.g. 10%, is the standard deduction that would apply to a perfectly correct reproduction (correct in every way) with the exception that it has DOT coding on the tire.
Keep in mind that NCRS Flight Judging does not judge the window sticker nor does it consider vehicle options that may have been recorded on the window sticker. In the case of tires, to lessen the originality judging point deduction, the car as presented on the judging field must fit within the matrix of tire type and OEM brand as set out in the TIM&JG.
For your car ('66), gold line tires installed at the assembly plant were either Goodyear Power Cushion or Firestone Super Sport. B.F. Goodrich was not an OEM supplier for gold line tires, therefore, if you install the BFG tires for Flight Judging, you will not be in the 10% deduction criteria described below.
The following is the Standard Deduction chart that is applied when judging tires for Originality:
No Originality Deduction - Four (4) matching OEM tires as described in the TIM&JG and one (1) matching, or non-matching, OEM spare tire.
Deduct 10% - Reproduction OEM brand and size tires which differ from the original only because of Federally required DOT marking.
Deduct 20% - Reproduction OEM brand, type and size tires which differ slightly from the original in design, construrction, material, tread width, white (or colored) wall width, style lettering or pattern.
Deduct 30% - Reproduction OEM brand, type and size tires which differ considerably from original in design, construction, material,, terad width, white (or colored) wall width, style, lettering or pattern.
Deduct 40% - Reproduction tires of non-OEM brand having correct size and sidewall specifications.
Deduct 60% - Current-day OEM brand, service replacement size, bias or radial ply tires or current equivalent sizing designation and correct whitewall width.
Deduct 75% - As above (50% deduct criteria) except non-OEM brand.
Deduct 100% - Originality and Condition, all others or those with white (or colored) wall mounted inboard.
With BFG gold line tires (non-OEM tires) on the car, the minimum deduction for tires will be 40% and depending on the design and construction of the tire and as well as other visual characteristics, the deduct could be 75%.
I believe the above is a correct assesment of originality judging for non-OEM tires; however, I am sure someone will correct me if I erred.
Best regards,Comment
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Sorry, the "Deduct 50%" in my earlier posting should read "Deduct 60%".
Best regards,Comment
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Thanks for the input guys. I have verified my car came with Firestone Super Sport Goldwall tires, so BFGs or Cokers are non-OEM for sure. Guess I'll have to take my chances, as I want to drive to the judging, and 300-500 miles driving on bias-ply type tires (even if you could find them!) is just not safe at any speed. Come to think of it, the side pipes will get pretty loud after a while too. Have fun at Killeen, wish I could make it but there will be some of us RoadRunner Chapter members there. Cheers.Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
If you are looking for an original Firestone Super Sports or just want to see pics of the real deal, there just so happens to be an original listed on ebay. I would link to the item, but that might violate tech board rules.
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Michael, for three years while going through all the steps involved in the Triple Crown process I drove my 65 all over with a set of bias ply goldline tires on it. I did not feel like going through the whole two sets of wheels, storage, etc. I drove the car on all types of roads and at all speeds, never gave the tires a second thought - as far as finding bias plys most all aftermarket companies sell correct bias ply tires. The only points you would lose is for the DOT lettering. The only thing I did not do was drive them in the rain, but I don't do that with radials either - but it is my understanding that bias plys are the pits in the rain.
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
But the bias plys are better at the strip when running Pure Stock. Pic of a little warm-up a month before.
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Thanks guys for the advice. I have had other cars that were bad on bias ply, but the C2 must be different. I know Coker sells the Firestone SS goldstripe, pricey but not much different than the radials like them. Think I will try a set, it would help with some points.
Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
Michael, I will be driving on "standard 10% deduction" bias-ply tires and with the side pipes booming all the way from Arlington to Killeen, on Thursday. Perhaps you should change your plans and join me. By the way, I drove my car with the same tires further, to Austin, for the April chapter meet with no problems. -ClarkComment
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Re: NCRS Flight Judging and tires
OK, you guys have convinced me to get a set of the Firestone SS bias plys. Wish I could make it to Killeen (it's only about 650 miles), but too many things to do this weekend, hope you have lots of fun, it is cool, and it doesn't rain.Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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