Early 461 Heads

[Richard T.]

I'm looking at a pair of early 461 X cylinder heads. Both dated 10-7-61 and each head has the camel hump casting symbol on one end and the pyramid symbol on the other head. Is this typical of early heads or unusual? Rich

[William C.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

I've never seen that configuration, and I've owned several sets, including the ones on my car that are in that casting sequence, as well as some earlier and later "X" heads. I'd sure want to take a REAL close look in person, and then decide if this was a judging purchase or a racing purchase. Judging I'd probably pass, Racing, anything goes. I assume they have the straight rail on the sides where the valvecover screw holes are, as typical on the "X" heads?

[Steven B.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Richard, I have had a few sets and have never seen anything like these. Does it look like any of the symbols were "manufactured"? A head with different symbols would have to be cast like that (what are the odds?) or "manufactured" after cast. I would really question if the heads are legitimate.

Steve

[Mike M.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

i agree with clup and steve. have had many sets of the 461x heads and none match your description. i'd want to carefully examine the camel hump areas for Mr JB Weld.mike

[William C.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

I'd also expect a set that early to have the "Flat" tops on the camel humps.

[Richard T.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Guys,
So far I've only seen pictures and I'm trying to decide if it's worth a few hours driving to inspect them. If everyone thinks they're probably bogus I most likely won't waste my time. Rich

[William C.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Rich, are the pictures good enough to see the configuration of the camel humps, and/or to see the outboard side of the head where the threaded holes for the rocker cover bolts are. Those are all unique in the early heads.

[Richard T.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

No they're pretty dark but I'm going to ask for better ones. I'm not sure that I understand what your saying about the side rails though. Rich

[Loren L.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Rich, move on to the next ad - you've already attracted the "A" team on your question, and when they come back negative, attend one extra church service this week and be generous in the donation.

[William C.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Rich one of the unique features of the "X" heads is the lack of any reinforcement at the pan rail where the threaded holes are for the rocker cover bolts. I've attached a picture of an "X" head, notice the outboard edge is straight along the line where the rocker cover meets the head, later heads have a "bump-out" to provide more support for the threaded area.

[Richard T.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Thanks Bill now I see what you mean. Once I get some better pictures I'll post them. Rich

[Joe L.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

I'm looking at a pair of early 461 X cylinder heads. Both dated 10-7-61 and each head has the camel hump casting symbol on one end and the pyramid symbol on the other head. Is this typical of early heads or unusual? Rich

Rich-----

The casting "symbol" on the ends of the heads is meant to identify the configuration of the head (not by part number but by general characteristics). Your description of the differing casting symbols on each end of these heads presents a "contradictory" configuration. The only way that I could see this happening would be some sort of foundry error, perhaps the use of mis-matched pattern elements. Of course, there's also the possibility of post-foundry "mischief" as Mike described. That should be rather easily discernable, though.

[Richard T.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Joe, I understand all that. I tripped over this situation when I responded to an ad selling 461 heads cast in Oct 61. Both heads were cast on the same date and while looking at the pictures I noticed that there were the two different casting symbols. I asked the seller to check and make sure they were both 461 s and he did, he also claims that each head has a different symbol at each end.

[Joe L.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Joe, I understand all that. I tripped over this situation when I responded to an ad selling 461 heads cast in Oct 61. Both heads were cast on the same date and while looking at the pictures I noticed that there were the two different casting symbols. I asked the seller to check and make sure they were both 461 s and he did, he also claims that each head has a different symbol at each end.

Rich----

Cast as early as they were, perhaps that further raises the possibility of foundry "irregularities", especially if they were cast on the same day. If they are authentic and as-described, that's the only reason I could see this happening.

[Richard T.]

Re: Early 461 Heads

Well my first thought was that it might be. If I get decent pictures we'll see. Rich