Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

[John R.]

First off I'm a new member and would like say 'Hey' to everyone and would like to apologize in advance for what will be long post.

I have a 1969 that I'm getting started on that has a lot of sentimental value and would like some input on where to go with it. I'm not in the restoration for the dollar value as I have no intention of EVER selling it, I would have to be homeless first and then I would probably live in it! The car will be a driver.

A little history on the car:

I'm technically the 2nd owner, my Dad bought it brand new off a dealer in California in 1969. In the early 80's (1982 if memory serves, I was around 8 years old) the car got into an accident and was hit on the right front wheel well and directly on the nose. I was sitting on my Mom's lap in the passenger seat and remember it like yesterday (before seat belt laws!), I was so upset my Dad thought I was hurt, but I was really upset that the car was hurt! The car has not been driven since. A whole new front body clip was placed on it, my Dad was then killed in an ultra-light accident in 1985, the car hasn't been touched since and has less than 40k original miles on it. Unfortunately the car was stored outside for a few years, it will need a complete ground up including the interior. I'm finally to the point of being able to keep my promise to my Dad and start working on it.

I'm not exactly sure on the option packages yet (still have to do my research), but here is what I do know about it:

1969 Hard-top
Fathom Green
427 cu in / 390 HP
4 spd transmission
Factory A/C
4 wheel disc brakes

What I know is not original:
-Entire front body clip (from the doors forward)
-Searing column (a tilt wheel has been swapped in)
-Distributor (Has an HEI distributor)
-Wheels / Tires

I'm torn between going two ways with the restoration and would like everyone's thoughts. Keep in mind I do want to drive it and it will not be a trailer queen to be hauled everywhere. Another item to note is that I live in Houston, TX so humidity and corrosion are always a concern for me.

Option 1:
Take it back to 100% original, maybe even go for a topflight judging in the future. My major concern is this even worth trying since the whole front clip is not original. I did notice in the NCRS rules that I've read so far that replacement parts are OK as long as they restore the car's original factory condition. I figure this is the option most NCRS members would go for.

Option 2:
Keep the car fairly original and do what is commonly called a resto-mod. I would restore everything back to original condition (especially the body and interior) with the following exceptions:

-Keep all engine internals original
-Add modern fuel injection.
-5 or 6 spd trans with overdrive
-Upgraded springs and shocks
-Replace all rubber with Polyurethane
-Upgraded brakes
-17/18 inch rims with lower profile tires
-Undercoat they entire frame*

*Undercoating the frame would definitely help in the wet humid environment I live in, but is hard to reverse.

As you can see with the exception of the frame undercoating, the modifications I'm considering are all bolt on and can be easily reversed, nothing is permanent or irreversible. I would keep all the original components that I have. Even if I go all original (option 1) I may still undercoat the entire frame to help prevent rust.

I don't imagine the cost of the restoration would be much different between the two as most the car will go back to original either way. Since I do plan to drive it, I like the idea of mild modifications to increase performance, longevity, and possibly highway fuel mileage. But then the purist side of me screams 'NO!' and wants to take it back 100% original. What are your thoughts and ideas, and suggestions to help me get off the fence?

Thanks,
John

[Patrick H.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

John,

A couple of thoughts:

1. What type of front clip was installed on the car? Did it come from another 69? Is it an aftermarket one piece hand laid unit? Was it pieced together from GM fiberglass?

2. I wouldn't ever think of undercoating, and I live in Michigan. The road salt and humidity will beat whatever you have in Texas any day. If you want longevity + proper appearance then consider having the fram powder coated. If the operator knows what they are doing it will be difficult to detect.

3. Tilt column is not a big deal. If you like it, leave it.

My thought is that if you want a newer acting car, buy a cheap C5 for the price of your "modern fuel injection" + overdrive transmission. But, that's just me. My daily driver is a 2008 coupe.

Patrick

[John R.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

The front clip is a one piece replacement and I'm almost positive it is aftermarket. Note sure if it is hand laid up, forgot how to check that... It has what appears to be a black base coat on it and never has been painted.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

The front clip is a one piece replacement and I'm almost positive it is aftermarket. Note sure if it is hand laid up, forgot how to check that... It has what appears to be a black base coat on it and never has been painted.

Check the backside of the fiberglass. If it is "rough" then it is hand laid. Not impossible to overcome with regard to Flight judging and points, but if the installer did a great job on it then you may not decide it's worth $2000-4000 for a correct used or repro front clip.

[John R.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

I did a quick check and the backside of the fiberglass is fairly smooth, not quite as smooth as the outer surface and seems to be a as smooth or a little smoother than the rear clip which is original.

Dad might of actually replaced it with a 'correct' front clip, it matches the short description from this post:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...glass&uid=9685

'For an authenic looking repair on a 68-72, you should use either used original parts, or the next best alternative, press match-molded reproduction panels in the original dark charcoal colored polyester resin fiberglass.'

Not sure if it is polyester resin fiberglass, but the "dark charcoal' description matches. Given that the front clip was put on around 1983, it could very well be OEM not sure if there is any way to tell for sure at this point. I haven't gotten a copy of the judging book for my car yet, I imagine it would help alot.

If the front clip turns out to be OEM correct, that would definitely lean me towards an all original restoration.

Thanks,

[Patrick H.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

John,

I "borrowed" this link from a hood on ebay. Note that the underside shows quite a bit of the fiberglass weave:

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/8/9/9/0/3/4/webimg/233762082_o.jpg

If you follow the link in my signature below you can find pictures of my 72 and get some idea what an original front end will look like.

Patrick

[John A.]

[Kenny C.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

John
Well first off congratulations on having kept this car for all these years, its wonderful to have such a piece of family history as well as corvette nostalgia. I have a 69 I am about to finish after over ten years of work. I have had my car since my senior year of high school (1978) so I have a similar sense of attachment and like you will never ever sell it. When I started my restoration I had some of the same thought as you, make a nice daily driver and add some after market stuff that I liked. I actually had the car nearly finished with paint and interior done when I decided to pull the body off and do the frame. As the work progressed my view of the car changed more towards making it as original as possible. Clearly I would have been much better off deciding upon this before I wasted thousands on exhaust, manifolds, carbs and odds and ends that now reside in the back of my garage. My point here is simply that you would do well to think long and hard about what you want to do and stay with it. My personal recommendation would be to go with your first option and attempt to keep it stock, it will actually be harder to keep it this way however the satisfaction will be greater. Hot roded cars are a dime a dozen however stock restorations of a high quality are rare indeed. When I was a kid a blower under the hood was as good as it got now a correctly dated smog pump looks more impressive. One other thing to consider is although you say you will drive it daily, after spending years and maybe 30 thousand or more on the restoration you view may change so think about doing it right and worry less about performance. Like others have said if you want a driver buy a newer cheaper C5.

[Art A.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

John, Which way do you think your dad would want you to do?

[John R.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

I really appreciate everyones input.

I said I was going to make it a driver, but I think I shouldn't of used the term that way. I do intend to drive it fairly often, but as a weekend road trip, to the car show, and road rally's. Not daily, I live in Houston I would be terrified to drive it in our crazy rush our traffic, that's what my 93' F350 Crew Cab Diesel Dually is for (I feel a little safer in the tank!).

I'm not in a hurry to have this project done. There is definitely the budget reality, while I would love to have it done right away, I figure on around 6 to 10 years. Much faster than that and I'll get accused of loving the car more than my wife . I do plan on taking it all the way down to the bare frame and to go through EVERY detail as I put it back together. I'm not new to working on cars as I grew up with it, if anything I get accused of taking to long because everything always has to be 'perfect'.

Art brings up a good point that I struggle with some. Dad most likely would of done some minor bolt on modifications, in fact the ones I listed in my initial e-mail where all done by him. However, back in the early 80's the car was barely over 10 years old, hard to imagine that is now 40 years old and that by the time I pass on and give it to my kids it may well be around 100 years old (I'm 35), scary thought! My gut says that he probably would restore it pretty much back to original.

Kenny you hit doornail on the head about deciding which path to go and not having to back track, this is why I'm thinking about this now. I figure the true decision point will come once I have it down to the frame and I'm ready to put it back together.

Thanks!

[John M.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

I owned a 69 fathom Green 427, and let me tell you, that's one of my favorite cars.

I hate Dark green on anything else but a 69 Vette. For some reason, it works. Especially if you have Sidepipes and Redlines.

I would absolutely 100% restore it bone stock original. Regardless of whether you ever NCRS flight judge it.

I've been restoring cars for probably 20 years now and have been enjoying them like you likely will. Local car shows, cruise-ins and weekend tooling.

Let me assure you nothing gets the respect and admiration like an original done car at these local events. The newest craze is correct resto. So much so that it will actually hurt the value of the car if it's modified. Both it's value, and respectability. Ultimately the choice is yours, and nobody will knock what you decide, but you'll get more satisfaction with all of your hard work and expense if the car is appreciated by the masses for it's level of correct show detail.

Also, restoring to originality is a lot of fun. The fun comes in researching what is correct, down to the nit picky overspray and bolt head marks, tags, decals, paint dabs, correct finishes..... its researching what's correct that is half the fun. Especially if your detail oriented (Compulsive obsessive) like me.

A 69 Fathom Green big Block is a respectible car. Even more so because your Dad bought it new.

I'd make her look like the day he took it home. Even cooler if you have original paperwork, documentation and photos.

If ever a car deserved it..... It sounds like this one does. Replacement clip or not. Knowing a cars history since new is a very neat thing. Especially since it was your Dad who bought it new. Documented History just adds to the provinance of a correctly restored car.

Check out my 69 in my link and go for it! You wont regret it.

[Paul J.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

John:

John, Kenney, and John said it all. I learned long ago that the options on any collectable car make the value. It's what makes the car stand above the others and fuels the increase in value over time. You have a big block 69, a desirable car that will appreciate with time. Like you, I will never sell my 64 but every time I spend too much money on a part I can keep my blood pressure down knowing that it helps preserve the car's value. And since it has desirable options I never worry about spending too much (or more than car's worth).

Resto mods truely are a dime-a-dozen, and as I've said before, Corvettes have become too popular and too valuable. While you may see some resto mods of other models do well in the market against thier stock counterparts, Vettes restored to orgininal condition (factory sloppiness aside) will always sell for more than those with non-original modifications.

By the way, when I finish my frame-off restoration I intend to use the car exactly as you have described.

Paul

[Tim S.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

John,

A good frame off resto will protect the chassis just fine. If the car were mine ( I can relate to your story ), I first would think of an overdrive transmission. This will make the car quieter and cooler on the highway. The torque of your 390hp will pull it along very well in high gear.
Second, good suspension parts, good tires, and careful assembly of the car. Third, the use of a product like Hushmat or Dynamat. This also will make the car quieter and cooler to drive.

If you are not so worried about Flight Judging, you will have a car that upholds your Dad's desires, maintains the classic look and feel of a 69, yet has a few hidden updates to make the car more user friendly and enjoyable for MANY miles to come.

Tim

[Dennis S.]

Re: Your thoughts / sugestions (new restoration project)......

Hey John, welcome to the madness. A documented 69 big block with original drivetrain is the next vette to seriously increase in value. You absolutely must work towards restoring the car to original condition. I'm in the process of restoring my side exhaust coupe, which I've had for five years. Maybe I'll never reach perfection, or have it flight judged for that matter, but at least EVERYTHING that I can afford to do is correct, right down to the last nut and bolt. I really would like to over-restore it, but others more knowledgeable than me keep me on the straight and narrow path. Document everything, keep all the old parts and take lots of photos. The next caretaker will more than likely pay you for it.