'75 Starter nose color

[Tory S.]

When my very dirty original starter came out of the car, it had what appeared to be a natural cast iron nose (the car is 4-spd). It looked dark, but lighter than the black painted surfaces.

The TIM states the nose should be painted black like the rest of the starter, but this is not how mine looked. Could starters be installed both ways - painted nose and unpainted?

So now that the starter is being rebuilt as part a full body-off restoration, the question is what to do with the nose: paint (like the TIM) or not to paint (as it appeared)?

Thanks,
Tory

'75 Conv.
Original owner

[John P.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Everything dad and I have discovered over the years points to the starter being painted as an assembled unit(the nose would be painted).After interviewing assembly line workers and supervisors,it is more likely for the whole starter not to have been painted than to have just one component unpainted.Iron was ALMOST always painted or coated to keep it from rusting.

[Tory S.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

John,
Thanks for the help. The line procedure information seems logical, so I'll paint it.

Tory

'75 Conv
One owner

[Joe L.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

John,
Thanks for the help. The line procedure information seems logical, so I'll paint it.

Tory

'75 Conv
One owner

Tory----

I agree with John. I have several NOS starters (some quite old) and all are completely painted (except for the portion of the nose which extends into the bellhousing which appears like it was not masked but the painters just tried to avoid that area).

Keep this in mind as a possibility in your case: while your starter may be original to the car, that does not mean that the starter nose is original to the starter. The outside bolt upper mounting "ear" can easily be broken on these cast iron noses. Replacement starter noses were once available from GM. They were supplied UNPAINTED. There are no dates I know of on these castings, so you won't be able to tell if it's original by that means.

[Tory S.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Joe,
Thanks for th input. You've always got great information.

I special ordered the car in February '75 (conv, 4-spd, FE7 and radio delete!), got it in April and have owned it ever since. It only has 37k miles and never a problem with the starter. This is my first restoration and I am learning as I go.

Before I ever heard of NCRS and had thoughts of restoration, as work was done on the car I always got the old parts back. Why, I don't know. So luckily I had the original carb, alternator and fuel pump. I even had the orignal air filter element - that's another story.

The starter nose was very dark, but to my untrained eye didn't look painted, but must have worn off a bit or something. Also a lot of grease too.

I do want to be sure when you say to pait it all, you do not mean the solenoid on top. It was clearly silver and unpainted; originally zinc plated I assume. So all semi-gloss black except the solenoid, right? I plan to install the starter tomorrow while the football games are on.

A few hours in the garage does a fella good!

Thanks,
Tory

'75 Conv.
Original owner

[Joe L.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Joe,
Thanks for th input. You've always got great information.

I special ordered the car in February '75 (conv, 4-spd, FE7 and radio delete!), got it in April and have owned it ever since. It only has 37k miles and never a problem with the starter. This is my first restoration and I am learning as I go.

Before I ever heard of NCRS and had thoughts of restoration, as work was done on the car I always got the old parts back. Why, I don't know. So luckily I had the original carb, alternator and fuel pump. I even had the orignal air filter element - that's another story.

The starter nose was very dark, but to my untrained eye didn't look painted, but must have worn off a bit or something. Also a lot of grease too.

I do want to be sure when you say to pait it all, you do not mean the solenoid on top. It was clearly silver and unpainted; originally zinc plated I assume. So all semi-gloss black except the solenoid, right? I plan to install the starter tomorrow while the football games are on.

A few hours in the garage does a fella good!

Thanks,
Tory

'75 Conv.
Original owner

Tory-----


Well, I'd say you've pretty much eliminated the possibility that the starter nose was ever replaced. However, also keep in mind that if the car was ever worked on at a dealership and some operation was performed that involved removal of the starter (even if the starter did not otherwise need to be removed for any problem with it), the mechanic could have broken the starter nose and replaced it.

As far as the solenoid goes, some were painted and some were not. However, I believe that they were usually installed after the starter was painted. So, the solenoid was either painted, or not, before it was installed on the starter. By the time your car was built, I think that the most predominant thing was the solenoid un-painted, zinc plated steel.

[Tory S.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Thanks Joe. I'm ready for Sunday = all semi-gloss except the solenoid. You're a great help as always.

[Brian G.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

FWIW.......Here is a picture of a '75 that was for sale on E-bay a few years ago with supposedly only 600 miles on it.

[Joe L.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

FWIW.......Here is a picture of a '75 that was for sale on E-bay a few years ago with supposedly only 600 miles on it.

Brian----


This one is an auto trans installation with a starter with the GM #801188 (later, GM #1984097) aluminum nosepiece. I have seen some apparently original starters with this nose in which the nose was not painted. However, I was never able to confirm that they were actually original. Unless one is looking at an NOS unit, confirmation of originality is pretty tough to do. This one is really strange, though. It looks like the nose is unpainted AND the reduced diameter, forward section of the starter main frame is also unpainted. Only the major diameter section of the starter frame is painted. I have no idea, at all, why this would be done. I don't doubt it's original, though.

[Joe L.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Thanks Joe. I'm ready for Sunday = all semi-gloss except the solenoid. You're a great help as always.

Tory-----


One other thing I should have mentioned: if your starter nose was not COVERED WITH RUST, then it HAD TO HAVE BEEN painted. These cast iron starter noses are just natural cast iron. They will rust "in the box" (SERVICE noses are not painted; I have many). In the sort of environment that a starter lives in, they will rust quickly and heavily. I have seen this happen with commercially rebuilt starters. Some of these leave the noses, either cast iron or aluminum, unpainted since they component paint only the starter frame prior to assembly (the end plate, with bushing, is often zinc plated since a new end plate is usually used except on the real "cheapies"). Every one of these that I have seen has the cast iron nose very rusty after even a short while. So, as I say, if your nose was not very rusty, it had to have been painted.

[Tory S.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Joe,
I'm sure you're right about it being painted. Most likely not a great paint job and over the years it mixed with all that black gunk and it all looks the same.

I took your advice and installed it this weekend. How am I doing on my first restoration?

Tory
75 conv.
Original owner

[Joe L.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Joe,
I'm sure you're right about it being painted. Most likely not a great paint job and over the years it mixed with all that black gunk and it all looks the same.

I took your advice and installed it this weekend. How am I doing on my first restoration?

Tory
75 conv.
Original owner

Tory-----


Looks good to me.

[Ridge K.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Joe,
I'm sure you're right about it being painted. Most likely not a great paint job and over the years it mixed with all that black gunk and it all looks the same.

I took your advice and installed it this weekend. How am I doing on my first restoration?

Tory
75 conv.
Original owner

Tory, your work looks great. Very good job.
I think you got superb advice from Joe Lucia, John Pirkle, and others who contributed to the discussion. By the way, John Pirkle has forgotten more about vintage starters, voltage regulators, generators, and alternators, than most of us will ever even know.
Not all of the service replacement starter noses were sold as bare cast iron, although as Joe mentioned, the later 1960s, and 1970s era (as your '75) were. Here's a pic of a GM #1929006 service replacement cast iron nose for a 1956 starter, which was found still in a sealed box form the late 1950s. As you can see, it was sold partially painted semi-gloss black, with the nose end masked off. By the 1960s, this probably became too time consuming on service replacements.
Once again, great work. Ridge.

[Joe L.]

Re: '75 Starter nose color

Tory, your work looks great. Very good job.
I think you got superb advice from Joe Lucia, John Pirkle, and others who contributed to the discussion. By the way, John Pirkle has forgotten more about vintage starters, voltage regulators, generators, and alternators, than most of us will ever even know.
Not all of the service replacement starter noses were sold as bare cast iron, although as Joe mentioned, the later 1960s, and 1970s era (as your '75) were. Here's a pic of a GM #1929006 service replacement cast iron nose for a 1956 starter, which was found still in a sealed box form the late 1950s. As you can see, it was sold partially painted semi-gloss black, with the nose end masked off. By the 1960s, this probably became too time consuming on service replacements.
Once again, great work. Ridge.

Ridge-----


Yes, all of the NOS starter noses I have are the block-mount type (i.e 63+). All the ones I have are unpainted.