C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

[Roger P.]

Gentlemen:
My black dash pads are original and in excellent condition. However, I have noticed over the past few months that an air pocket has developed between the vinyl and the foam and is getting a little larger. It is specifically located on the driver's side, all the way over to the left, and is heading toward the cluster. It not a perfect oval in shape that is 2" -3" long and about 1" or so high. I don't want to replace these original pads, nor do I want to pull the cluster and the pad to attempt a repair. My idea is to inject a glue (either "Krazy Glue Gel" or "Tear Mender") with a needle and syringe into the delaminated pocket and then hold it down for a few minutes until it bonds. Once I am done, the 1 to 3 small needle holes should most likely not be noticeable. If they are, they can be touched-up with a vinyl repair patch kit. The rest of both pads are near perfect. What do you think?

Your guidance is appreciated,
Roger (50141)

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Rodger,

As an avid "do it youself "type person who owns five tubes of Super Glue,and four tubes of JB Weld < I see a few problems with your approach. The first is the material you are trying to rebind, vinal to the foam or foam to the plastic base . The only thing that binds those two together is Contact Glue of some sort . Secondly, it needs to be applied to both sufaces evenly and equaly, otherwise you just trade one big bubble for a few small ones ! Thirdly, the super glue will not stick very well but it will dry " Very Hard", ie; no flexibility. Then of course there are those holes in the vinal .

The only thing I can think of is to remove the pad , drill a hole from underneath and insert a tube attached to a contact cement spray can. That will insure a decent spread pattern , and inject the propper glue type . Of course once it is off there are probably other ways to tackle the problem.

In the words of Dennis Miller:" Thats just my opinion , I could be wrong " !

Jim

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Jim:
Thanks for your suggestion. I guess we're similar as I am sometimes called "McGyver" - typically with good results. I can usually figure out a creative way of doing something when others say to forget about it (as my local upholstery shop did yesterday). Another upholsterer once told me that Krazy Glue is great for all fabrics and carpet repairs. He was right as I have mended many things using that wacky stuff. I thought that the gel type of Krazy Glue would bond to the foam, but to make sure, I wrote to their technical support people and await their reply. I am also considering a product called Tear Mender which has been around since the '30's, and is made for all porous fabric materials. It also dries quickly (which is good since there is no way to clamp the dash pad), but they claim it remains flexible even when dry. There have been many positive reviews from other consumers (of course, not using it for my specific application). In addition, this glue can get on your fingers without chemical bonding and wipes off of material clean & clear (such as on the pad). The holes should be very small using a small needle. I think it's worth a try before the air pocket gets any worse. A glue that shrinks as it dries would be ideal, but I am not aware of that product. More than anything, I don't want to remove the dash pad as that would be a big, ugly job!

Thanks again,
Roger (50141)

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Roger,
Well if the Crazy glue gel stays a gel or that Tear Mender remains soft , you just might pull it off ! I was thinking that once those things soaked into the foam and dried , you would end up with a "flat Spot ", and a hard one at that !

Good luck , and let us hear the results!

Jim

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Jim:
Thanks for your suggestions. I am going to try the glue injection once I locate a needle & syringe and select the most appropriate glue. Hopefully one of my doctor friends will come through for me this week. Once I cross my fingers and say a prayer, I'll hold my breath and give it a go. After the glue dries, I'll post my results so everyone will know if this is a viable repair solution.

Thanks again,
Roger (50141)

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

OK, here is an update regarding the "glue injection" that I tried in order to fix the air pocket in my driver's side dash pad. One of my doctor friends came through and got me a sterile syringe & needle. I decided to try the Tear Mender glue after speaking to their technical people. The syringe idea worked very well as I was able to inject the glue behind the vinyl and into the pocket where the vinyl delaminated from what I assume is a rigid foam backing. The repair concept was perfect, but the glue didn't work . I became concerned about using Krazy Glue since some glue seeps out of the tiny hole in the vinyl until you wipe if off. With KG, that could be a huge disaster . Also, I learned that KG doesn't work on styrofoam (which I still assume is the substrate). By the way, the needle holes are basically invisible, so injecting the glue in several places in not a problem. After reading the labels of several glues at Ace Hardware, I decided to try Weldbond Universal Space Age Adhesive which I selected because it was the only commercial-grade glue that claims to work on styrofoam and didn't require application to both surfaces with drying time before bonding (like contact cement). Weldbond doesn't dry as fast as KG or TM, so I have it wedged with some styrofoam blocking as it requires only "moderate" pressure to cure. I will post the results of my latest attempt in the next couple of days.

In the event that this glue doesn't work, I will try to glue it one last time with a different glue. However, does anyone know the exact material of the dash substrate (what type of foam)? Also, does the dash pad vinyl have a fabric backing, or is it smooth vinyl like the dash? These materials make a difference in whether a glue will work or not (and is why the first glue didn't work).

Thank you,
Roger (50141)

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Roger,

Here is a picture of the dash pad with the vinal missing from the right side . It is a firm black foam rubber . Yhe Vinal has no fabric backing to it as far as I can tell, Note where my finger is lifting up the vinal to expose the back of it,

I hope this helps and good luck with your project,

Jim

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Jim:
Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. Your photo and explanation really helps me understand the situation. Most adhesives either have an issue with unbacked vinyl and/or different types of foam. Even Weldbond, according to their website, doesn't work well on unbacked vinyl and rubber. Now, I am not very optimistic that my latest attempt is going to work. My last try might have to be some form of contact cement if I can find one that isn't too thick to pass through a syringe & needle. If I can get it in the air pocket and massage it around, it would be on both surfaces. Then, after waiting the specified length of time, I can press down on the vinyl to make contact with the foam rubber substrate to make the bond (in theory). I hope it doesn't come to that, but I am mentally prepared for it now.

I'll keep you posted,
Roger (50141)

[Kirk M.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Keeps us posted. I have some original door panels with three bubbles that I would like to fix in a similar manner.

Kirk

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Jim:
Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. Your photo and explanation really helps me understand the situation. Most adhesives either have an issue with unbacked vinyl and/or different types of foam. Even Weldbond, according to their website, doesn't work well on unbacked vinyl and rubber. Now, I am not very optimistic that my latest attempt is going to work. My last try might have to be some form of contact cement if I can find one that isn't too thick to pass through a syringe & needle. If I can get it in the air pocket and massage it around, it would be on both surfaces. Then, after waiting the specified length of time, I can press down on the vinyl to make contact with the foam rubber substrate to make the bond (in theory). I hope it doesn't come to that, but I am mentally prepared for it now.

I'll keep you posted,
Roger (50141)

Roger,

Glad to hear the photo helped and sorry to hear about your difficulty, but I think that is pretty much how we started this thread. I don't think anything other than Contact Cement will work.

If you can find a Contact Cement that will flow through a Syringe , I think you should skip any other attempts and go straight to that. The next step , assuming you cant find any thin enough, would be to make a hole large enough to get a tube from a can of Contact Cement into it and spray it in. Then repair the somewhat larger hole .

Good Luck for you and Kirk's sake,

Jim

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Kirk and Jim,
Here's the latest on the "glue injection" repair: As I was afraid, the Weldbond didn't work. Now I have two different glues injected in the air pocket with no results -- and thankfully no damage other than about 6 microscopic pin holes from the needle. It doesn't look like I will find a contact cement that will flow through the needle, so that idea isn't looking very promising. The only glue that I have found online that might work (and I have spent a lot of time looking and speaking to technical support people) is called Rhino Glue. This product isn't sold in any retail stores and is only available from the manufacturer. Most glues cost about $ 4.00, but this one is costing me $ 13.00 plus $ 5.00 shipping. If it works, it will be worth it. I am optimistic since their website claims that it works great on vinyl and foam rubber (although their customer service department never called me back). Also, it dries fast and appears to be thin enough to get through the needle. Hopefully it will arrive by the weekend so I can try it when I have some "Vette" time between family fun, football games, and household chores. The repair concept will be a winner if this glue works. Otherwise ??
I'll keep you guys posted (keep your fingers crossed for me!).

Best regards,
Roger (50141)

[Kirk M.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Definitely rooting for you. One thing I've tried in the past is warming the glue before loading the syringe. Makes it flow a little easier.

Spoke to an upholstery guy today who does all kinds of custom work. He couldn't come up with a way to fix my bubbles either. Gave me the name of another guy who I will call.

I assume that the way these are constructed, door panels that is, is that there is a cardboard backing onto which the foam is glued onto which in turn the vinyl is glued. Is that correct?

I think I might have to try some creative approaches myself.

Has anyone tried to attach a spray nozzle like the red tube on WD-40 to a can of spray contact cement? That way I could cut a small hole and nozzle some spray contact cement into the bubble, let it set up and re-glue the bubble. For me since I have a door panel, I could also try drilling a hole through the cardboard backing panel to the bubble and try the same nozzle approach - little worried about collateral damage on that one, especially since I believe the vinyl had pulled away from the foam rather than the foam from the backing material. Just some thoughts.

Kirk

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Kirk,
Thanks for your support. I am disappointed with the results so far for obvious reasons, but I am still optimistic about the Rhino Glue. I think that contact cement is usually pretty thick & sticky, so I am concerned about the spray-in approach. I, too, thought about spraying contact cement through a "red tube", but I don't think it will go anywhere other than the spot where it is sprayed unless you slice open the air pocket (which I really don't want to do). If the Rhino Glue works for my application, I think it will work for yours, too. I'm anxious to receive it and give it a go. Stay tuned...

Frustrated, but maintaining a smile,
Roger (50141)

[Roger P.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Kirk and Jim,
The Rhino Glue arrived today! That was pretty fast considering it came from California to South Florida in only two days. It appears to have a good consistency; not too thick and not too thin. I am looking forward to making the repair either late afternoon tomorrow or on Saturday morning. Keep those fingers crossed for me - and for you, too, Kirk! I'll get back to you guys by Sunday with the final verdict.

Have a good weekend,
Roger (50141)

[Kirk M.]

Re: C2 Dash Pad Air Pocket

Good luck!