Fuel for our old Iron

[Ralph P.]

With all the recent discussions on fuel alternatives, I'm still unclear as to the effects of 10% Ethanol ( 93 Octane ) on old engines . I've been blending 100LL Ave gas with non-ethanol 93.... but, seems every gasoline brand has gone the ethanol route . Specifically, what about carb gaskets, o-rings, hoses, etc. ? Are there brands in the SE that have not drunk the corn coolaid ?

[Joe L.]

Re: Fuel for our old Iron

With all the recent discussions on fuel alternatives, I'm still unclear as to the effects of 10% Ethanol ( 93 Octane ) on old engines . I've been blending 100LL Ave gas with non-ethanol 93.... but, seems every gasoline brand has gone the ethanol route . Specifically, what about carb gaskets, o-rings, hoses, etc. ? Are there brands in the SE that have not drunk the corn coolaid ?

Ralph-----


The only way I'd be concerned about ethanol in the fuel is relative to elastomeric components of the fuel system and, even then, only if the car still has aged such parts (which it should not if one does proper maintenance).

I'd make sure the rubber fuel line sections were replaced with modern pieces which are formulated for current gasoline. I'd also make sure that the car had a fuel pump of fairly recent manufacture. It will have elastomeric materials formulated for current gasoline. Lastly, I'd "refresh" the carburetor with a minor rebuild kit which will contain "soft parts" compatible with current fuels. With one minor caveat, I think an old car would thus be "fully converted" for modern fuel.

The one caveat is the gasket on the fuel sender/pick-up in the fuel tank. I don't know if these are currently made of material fully compatible with current gasoline. However, I've never heard of any problems with these and folks have been using ethanol blended gasoline for well over 5 years now---much longer in some parts of the country.

[Richard M.]

Re: Fuel for our old Iron

Coincidentally, there is a very informative article in the Fall '09 issue of the Hagerty's quarterly publication. I looked online but it's not archived yet. Part one of the series(Ethanol: Demonic or Devine?) is here:

http://www.hagerty.com/ethanol1

The 2nd article summarizes testing on several vehicles fuel systems, including: 48 Ford flathead, 58 VW Beetle, 62 MG, 63 Falcon, 69 BelAir and a 70 New Yorker. Tests were run using E0(ethanol free), and E10(10% ethanol).

The tests were performed by Minnesota University Mankato and was Hagerty funded. It basically says that after all tests everything was pretty much "ok". It did summarize that E10's "cleaning effect" would require more frequent cleaning of the fuel system as the E10 will loosen particles in old fuel systems that have been sitting dormant for years. In other words, fuel filters and areas susceptible to clogging may need more maintainence with it's use. It did say that E10 will likely cause a shorter life of seals not designed for it. It further mentions that the use of Viton and Nitrile materials are not harmend by the E10.

So if you're rebuilding fuel systems, it may be best to make sure your rebuild kits have these materials. However I have not seen any kits that show what the seals are made of. I'd bet if you called your favorite supplier and asked if the rubbery parts are made of Viton or Nitrile, you'd probably get this for an answer......."Huhhhh?"

Rich
p.s. My accelerator pumps on my 59's dual fours have not been squirting like they used to. Hmmmmmm?

[Ralph P.]

Re: Fuel for our old Iron

Thanks, Richard ( and Joe ).....
I have been very comfortable using my AvGas mixture in the past . But, now they want metal cans instead of plastic ; and, the latest "Vette Enthusiast " article casts more doubt on AvGas in general. I sure hate to be tearing into those carbs.....

[Michael W.]

Re: Fuel for our old Iron

Why are you using Avgas? Do you have problems with pre ignition?

[Ralph P.]

Re: Fuel for our old Iron

I don't run her hard enough to notice any preignition ;but, just seems to generally run better ( yeah, I know, pretty subjective ) . With very limited use , I'm under the impression that AvGas contains stabilizers that prevent the nomal aging problems ..... maby I should consider one of the "fuel stabilizers" now sold? Anyone have any experience & can recommend the best ?

[Bob B.]

Re: Fuel for our old Iron

Ralph-----


The only way I'd be concerned about ethanol in the fuel is relative to elastomeric components of the fuel system and, even then, only if the car still has aged such parts (which it should not if one does proper maintenance).

I'd make sure the rubber fuel line sections were replaced with modern pieces which are formulated for current gasoline. I'd also make sure that the car had a fuel pump of fairly recent manufacture. It will have elastomeric materials formulated for current gasoline. Lastly, I'd "refresh" the carburetor with a minor rebuild kit which will contain "soft parts" compatible with current fuels. With one minor caveat, I think an old car would thus be "fully converted" for modern fuel.

The one caveat is the gasket on the fuel sender/pick-up in the fuel tank. I don't know if these are currently made of material fully compatible with current gasoline. However, I've never heard of any problems with these and folks have been using ethanol blended gasoline for well over 5 years now---much longer in some parts of the country.

Joe I was thinking how to start my story on Avgas when you posted this info on the DB. Last Sunday afternoon I topped my tank off with AvGas to see if there is any real differance in the idle and performance of my 63 FI convert which bought new in Oct. 62 I restored the car in 91 and had the FI unit rebuilt by JD at the time and been using 93 octane pump gas with ethanol ever since with no real problems. After filling up Sun. with AvGas and driving for awhile I parked the car in the garage. I woke up Mon. morning for my coffee and I smelled gas and opened the garage door and gas was leaking out big time from the fuel sender in the tank and also on the FI unit. Now I have everything apart to replace all the O-rings and seals. This is the complete opposite of what everyone has been saying for the last couple years that ethanol would cause leaks. What I can conclude from this is that the items shrunk from AvGas and started leaking. Story of my life-- Gee I have never heard that one before!!

[Michael W.]

Re: Fuel for our old Iron

I don't run her hard enough to notice any preignition ;but, just seems to generally run better ( yeah, I know, pretty subjective ) .

No, not really subjective. High octane gas does not contain any compounds that will allow a car to start, idle or run any smoother/better than regular octane. High octane fuels only help avoid pre-ignition, nothing else. Aviation fuel may help dealing with percolation or vapour lock issues but have no other magic ingredients.

If you have neither of these issues, you're just pouring money down the drain.