Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

[Brandon T.]

Almost bought a 69 at carlisle but one thing that had me trying to find out is was the sidepipes factory or not the seller didn't know and I didn't know how to tell exactly.

car had the original looking sidepipes, it had panels at the back of the car so nobody simply corvered the holes so I couldn't tell really..couldn't get up under the car since it well had the sidepipes.

also is a car is converted to a sidepipe car, do they have to hack up the body in order to put those sidepipe rear panels in to take place of the through body holes for the original exhaust?

or at the rear of the car where the holes for the under the car exhaust goes through a panel itself seperate from the rest of the rear clip?

if it is then I wouldn't mind it being converted to a sidepipe car too much

this is the car some of you might be able to tell from the pics http://mershons.com/view_photo.asp?I...image=Exterior

[Mike M.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

the only real 69 sidepipe car i was ever involved with had "N 11'' crayon marked on the fiberglass bulkhead just behind the driver's seat. the rear valence panel of a n-11 had no cut-outs for the exhaust tips. the valence panel is fastened to the rear clip with bolts, not fiberglassed to the rear clip. mike

[Jack H.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

Your copy of the '68-69 JG book lists a judging Factory Installation Test with seven key points to examine. There are more aspects that are NOT listed...

But, more importantly, the car's VIN can be a key too. If memory serves, there was a dispute between GM/Chevy and the EPA over noise pollution with factory production/delivery of N14 equipped cars delayed pending resolution. I'd seriously doubt the authenticity of an early VIN '69 car equipped with side exhaust.

I can't recall all the details, but I did talk to a local owner who was a Chevy Zone Dealer out this way. He'd used the employee purchase plan to buy his car and it seemed to take FOREVER to get built. He mentioned taking a trip to St. Louis and seeing a BUNCH of side exhaust cars sitting in a holding bin area that included his car (floor space at St. Louis was a precious commodity).

If memory serves he said his car didn't physically ship until some time after 1/1/69...

[Dennis S.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

N11 was off road exhaust. N14 was side exhaust. My car is an original side exhaust car, confirmed by both window sticker and tank sticker. The serial number is 21077, built in early April.

The 7 points listed in the judging manual are good indicators, especially numbers 3 and 4, but you really need to get underneath to see them. If the car does not have the center exhaust hanger and especially no threads in the holes of the frame for a grounding trap attachment, but rather has a spacer at the transmission, then that is a good thing. Also check for the original foil-covered insulation on top of the frame side rails and down the outside of the rail. The only way to add or change that would be with the body off the frame. Most side exhaust additions no not address these issues.

[Brandon T.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

I see something thats different on this car on ebay from the one from merhons I was intrested in.

The back panels are different, which style is correct? the one mershons had had a curve in the back panel..the maroon one in the picture below shows the panels lack the curve they just have a straight panel line.





the yellow one below has same rear panels as the car I liked that mershons had at carlisle it's hard to see in the pic below but if you look close the panels have a curve in them, so which is correct? the panels on the maroon car or the panels on the yellow car that will be one quick way to check when looking at sidepipe cars.

[Dennis S.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

The maroon car is correct. Doesn't mean they are original. I've seem add-ons both ways.

[Brandon T.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

The maroon car is correct. Doesn't mean they are original. I've seem add-ons both ways.

Thanks, because I've looked at A LOT of 69 sidepipe cars with what I now know to be incorrect panels at the rear.

If I don't gain anything else from this thread atleast I can spot that right off.

[Mike M.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

N11 was off road exhaust. N14 was side exhaust. My car is an original side exhaust car, confirmed by both window sticker and tank sticker. The serial number is 21077, built in early April.

The 7 points listed in the judging manual are good indicators, especially numbers 3 and 4, but you really need to get underneath to see them. If the car does not have the center exhaust hanger and especially no threads in the holes of the frame for a grounding trap attachment, but rather has a spacer at the transmission, then that is a good thing. Also check for the original foil-covered insulation on top of the frame side rails and down the outside of the rail. The only way to add or change that would be with the body off the frame. Most side exhaust additions no not address these issues.

n-14 is correct. knew i shoulda stuck to the c-1 and c-2's and not offered info on the c-3's. sorry.mike

[Richard T.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

Brandon: I own a side pipe 1970 built in 1969 signed and dated by the builders under the hood. Side pipes stopped being offered by GM on October 24, 1969. My car has the GM valence panel with the 1969 date and part number on the back side and the panel is painted body color on the inside and held in place by four bolts along with six top screws, four behind the bumpers. The 69 cars all would have this panel if factory or dealer installed. A after market panel would have no GM 69 date or the holes would be patched where the tips came out. I would not think a dealer would paint the back side of the valence body color but some might have. The other more important thing to look for is the cut outs on the lower bird cage for the brackets that hold the pipes in place. A non factory car would have rough cuts left unpainted. A side pipe car will have clean cuts painted body color. The body was painted before the drop to the frame. All side pipe cars produced early in 69 had serious rust out problems with the round mufflers and were replaced by the owners later or by the GM dealers with double oval style stainless steel or what some call non rusting or alum type mufflers. The main reason GM wanted to stop offering side pipes on the 69 cars was that the cars shipped were arriving at the dealers with broken pipes because the front ends were so low to the ground. The C2 cars were higher in the front and a different style and seldom arrived damaged. These cars had no cats and I have not heard of any Gov. requirements that would have delayed shipping. One more thing to look for on the C3 cars is the inside behind the chrome cool touch safety shield to stop the bare leg burns the C2 cars caused. The shield is black and appears to be made of fiber glass about 3/8 inch thick. I have had my car judged by the WSCC, Palo Alto Concours, Corvette restores and an original 1969 Corvette side pipe car owner. GM shipped his car to CA. in a semi truck to make sure his side pipe car arrived undamaged. In closing the car you are interested in buying looks to be a nice car. Put the car on a rack check the rear valence panel and measure the cut outs to make sure they con form to the factory assembly manual. Corvette Central has the manual. In closing do research on what model car you are thinking of buying. A 4 by 4 inch mirror and a mag light does wonders along with a note book when buying a classic car. I know there might be some that will disagree and say no 70 cars had side pipes factory installed. Oh Well.

[Brandon T.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

Brandon: I own a side pipe 1970 built in 1969 signed and dated by the builders under the hood. Side pipes stopped being offered by GM on October 24, 1969. My car has the GM valence panel with the 1969 date and part number on the back side and the panel is painted body color on the inside and held in place by four bolts along with six top screws, four behind the bumpers. The 69 cars all would have this panel if factory or dealer installed. A after market panel would have no GM 69 date or the holes would be patched where the tips came out. I would not think a dealer would paint the back side of the valence body color but some might have. The other more important thing to look for is the cut outs on the lower bird cage for the brackets that hold the pipes in place. A non factory car would have rough cuts left unpainted. A side pipe car will have clean cuts painted body color. The body was painted before the drop to the frame. All side pipe cars produced early in 69 had serious rust out problems with the round mufflers and were replaced by the owners later or by the GM dealers with double oval style stainless steel or what some call non rusting or alum type mufflers. The main reason GM wanted to stop offering side pipes on the 69 cars was that the cars shipped were arriving at the dealers with broken pipes because the front ends were so low to the ground. The C2 cars were higher in the front and a different style and seldom arrived damaged. These cars had no cats and I have not heard of any Gov. requirements that would have delayed shipping. One more thing to look for on the C3 cars is the inside behind the chrome cool touch safety shield to stop the bare leg burns the C2 cars caused. The shield is black and appears to be made of fiber glass about 3/8 inch thick. I have had my car judged by the WSCC, Palo Alto Concours, Corvette restores and an original 1969 Corvette side pipe car owner. GM shipped his car to CA. in a semi truck to make sure his side pipe car arrived undamaged. In closing the car you are interested in buying looks to be a nice car. Put the car on a rack check the rear valence panel and measure the cut outs to make sure they con form to the factory assembly manual. Corvette Central has the manual. In closing do research on what model car you are thinking of buying. A 4 by 4 inch mirror and a mag light does wonders along with a note book when buying a classic car. I know there might be some that will disagree and say no 70 cars had side pipes factory installed. Oh Well.

thanks, very good info!

what turned me away from the car besides the sidepipes being added because that didn't bother me too bad.

the seller didn't know anything about the car I asked if it was a m20 or m21 trans, they didn't know, what gear ratio is it? they didn't know..asked if it was original trans and rear end..they again had no clue. To be into vettes for as many years as they have they acted like they didn't know crap about corvettes IMO.

IMO if you're asking 40k for a c3 you need to have it documented because being at a car show a long ways from home I didn't have time to take it to a lift and check things like that myself yanno.

[Richard T.]

Re: Can someone give me the clue to see if sidepipes were added or not on a 69?

By the time I posted my two cents worth you posted the photos. The yellow car is incorrect because all side pipe cars had a seam on each side with two bolts on the inside of each seam. I enjoy this site and all the comments; it is a learning experience and fun to read. The comment about the insulation above the frame rail on the original side pipe 69 car is interesting being it would require a body off to replace the shield. Maybe it was done on some of the early 69 cars. The shield on my car and the CA 69 car have the screw mounted black shield and no frame shield before the body drop. The frames were all taped for exhaust hangers before they went to the factory. I am not sure if all cars had the square mount or bat wing style on the rear transmission rubber mount since the body was dropped after the power train was installed. These cars were made by the thousands and by different people due to shift changes and so on and this step might have been over looked because either plate will protect the rubber mount.