Solid lifters

[Bill M.]

Re: Solid lifters

Thank you all for you input. It does seem now that it is not a very good idea.
Phil 10 years ago you got me a cam and lifter set for my 65 396. I think your friends name was Sal. is he still setting up systems? Maybe he can grind me what i need.

thanks
Bill

[Stuart F.]

Re: Solid lifters

Not to open up a can of worms, but what the heck. I'm on my way out to shop soon so won't be able to track responses.

I have done the head to block deck measurement thing to confirm that I have double head gaskets on my 63 L-76 (a CR drop from 11.25 to 1 down to 10.5 to 1). Well, my feeler gauge says I have only one gasket. What more can I say. Maybe I just can't read a feeler gauge, or others will say I'm just not willing to accept it (and probably won't until my engine is pulled down for the first time in it's life).

Stu Fox

[Wayne W.]

Re: Solid lifters

A lot of that noise is due to the loose clearanced forged pistons, and properly adjusted mechanical lifters should not be noisy.

Ever been to a classic car show. Most of the luxury cars from the prewar era had mechanical lifters and sometimes the only way to know they are running is to look at the fan and see if it is turning or not.

Duke

I agree and know what you are trying to say Duke, but there is another reason. Most of those Classic cars are flat heads and the valves are buried deep in the block. Cam designs allow adjustments in the .004-.006 range. Some cars like the V16 and V12 Cadillac had overhead valves, but they were hydraulic or oil cushioned.

[Michael H.]

Re: Solid lifters

Not to open up a can of worms, but what the heck. I'm on my way out to shop soon so won't be able to track responses.

I have done the head to block deck measurement thing to confirm that I have double head gaskets on my 63 L-76 (a CR drop from 11.25 to 1 down to 10.5 to 1). Well, my feeler gauge says I have only one gasket. What more can I say. Maybe I just can't read a feeler gauge, or others will say I'm just not willing to accept it (and probably won't until my engine is pulled down for the first time in it's life).

Stu Fox

I agree, Stu. I don't think the 340 and 360 HP 63 engines had double head gaskets. I don't know this for sure but I believe the double gasket was used for the 62 engines.

If I remember correctly, a double gasket was a service procedure for service complaint cases only.

[Duke W.]

Re: Solid lifters

My mid-March built 340 HP SWC had double .018" steel shim head gaskets from Flint.

Double head gaskets from Flint started in the mid-'62 model year time frame and was done in the field as required if the customer complained about detonation. This is all spelled out in the TSB, which has been discussed here a number of times.

I'm not sure when the practice ended. With about 2 cc larger chambers due to the relief cut for the 2.02" inlet valve and the 30-30 cam, which closed the inlet valve at least 10 degrees later, the '64 SHP/FI engines would have been less prone to detontion, but I have no evidence - anecdotal or otherwise - if double gaskets continued for the '64 SHP/FI engine configurations.

Duke

[Joe C.]

Re: Solid lifters

Phillip, I would like to see a pic of that lifter. Sounds like a good idea but where on the bottom?

I wonder if another calibrated pressure leak would effect overall engine oil pressure? Just thinking out load.

Here ya go Tim:

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=800-16&Category_Code=SFT

Personally, I don't think ya need 'em, except for use with the most aggressive flat tappet camshafts. It stands to reason that it will "steal" oil flow from somewhere else more vital, and probably not recommended for use without a high volume pump. I would NOT go there unless and until I was able to do a very thorough investigation. Besides, it looks like a "gimmick" to me, because the hole is so small (.012") that it will clog up in very short order. Which brings me to the subject of Marvel Mystery Oil..................

These are what you'll need, except for the most severe duty, and what I'm using in my engine build:

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=813-16&Category_Code=SFT

Joe

[Michael H.]

Re: Solid lifters

My mid-March built 340 HP SWC had double .018" steel shim head gaskets from Flint.

Duke

I have a June 63 FI that know has never been apart, another Feb 63 FI that appears to have never been apart, and measurements from several other 63 340/360 engines that appear to have never been apart. These engines have one head gasket according to measurements taken with a feeler ga.

One 63 I owned several years ago did have two head gaskets but conversation with the original owner confirmed that the heads were removed and double gaskets installed when the car was only about 6 months old.

If I remember correctly, I measured Helene Zasadny's head/block gap on her 63 FI car and it too had only one gasket. Engine definitely never been touched, original owner documented.

I dunno.........

[Clem Z.]

Re: Solid lifters

i used a .003 deep flat ground on one side of solid lifters to get oil to the lifter/cam lobe interface. i ground it from the center recess down to about 1/8" inch from the lifter bottom. this allowed extra oil to be sprayed onto the cam when the lifter was on the heel of the cam and the flat was exposed below the lifter bore in the block.

[Joe C.]

Re: Solid lifters

i used a .003 deep flat ground on one side of solid lifters to get oil to the lifter/cam lobe interface. i ground it from the center recess down to about 1/8" inch from the lifter bottom. this allowed extra oil to be sprayed onto the cam when the lifter was on the heel of the cam and the flat was exposed below the lifter bore in the block.

Can also groove the lifter bores.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Solid lifters

Michael;

Thanks for the informative support. I know for a fact my July 9 build L-76 has never been apart.

Wonder how is Helene doing these days? Guess she dropped out of an active roll with the Illinios Chapter even before we moved south in 04. She spent a lot of time looking over my Trim Tags at a show in Lockport one day. She thought it was unique that I had a double stamped delivery date and I explained to her why (coming up from New Mexico on leave later than planned to PU in Jefferson, WI). She also made me promise to give her my carpeting when I changed it out. Guess she never figured I'd run it to tatters first.

Stu Fox

[Duke W.]

Re: Solid lifters

I have a June 63 FI that know has never been apart, another Feb 63 FI that appears to have never been apart, and measurements from several other 63 340/360 engines that appear to have never been apart. These engines have one head gasket according to measurements taken with a feeler ga.

One 63 I owned several years ago did have two head gaskets but conversation with the original owner confirmed that the heads were removed and double gaskets installed when the car was only about 6 months old.

If I remember correctly, I measured Helene Zasadny's head/block gap on her 63 FI car and it too had only one gasket. Engine definitely never been touched, original owner documented.

I dunno.........

The operative word here is "appears". Since I am the original owner of my SWC, and did all my own work I KNOW the heads had never been off when I pulled the engine for a refresh.

The actual measured gasket thickness, which you did not specify, can yield some clues. The OE Flint gasket was .018", so two would be about .036". This .018" OE gasket was replaced for service by a .026" gasket circa 63/64, and the .018" gasket was dropped from service parts and only used by Flint for engine assembly. So if a Chevrolet dealer pulled the heads for work after this period, the replacement gasket would measure .026".

So depending on whether the gasket(s) is a composition or shim type - and you should be able to tell - and the thickness, some reasonable conclusions can often be drawn.

Duke

[Timothy B.]

Re: Solid lifters

I purchased a NOS set of 3830711 steel shim head gaskets and just measured them at .021 FWIW, (Brown and Sharp venier guage).

I read in the archives about steel shim head gaskets and don't see how they can grow when the embossment in the gasket is squished tightening the head. If I remove the heads on either of my cars I will be using them as I want to keep the compression as high as reasonably possible.

[Michael H.]

Re: Solid lifters

This .018" OE gasket was replaced for service by a .026" gasket circa 63/64, and the .018" gasket was dropped from service parts and only used by Flint for engine assembly.
Duke

The 3830711 head gasket is an early intro 63 part. It's not the same part number used for 62 and very early 63. I don't have a 62 printing of the parts book so I don't know what the 62/early 63 gasket part number was but I suspect it was probably removed from service some time around November/December 1962 and replaced by the 3830711.

The 3830711 was available for many years and I've heard many different numbers for the thickness of this gasket. I always thought they were around .019" but I don't remember.

[Joe L.]

Re: Solid lifters

Michael and Duke-----

The 1962 head gasket for all 283's and 327's was GM #3783631. It was replaced by the GM #3830711 in July, 1963. However, that does not mean that's when the 3830711 replaced the 3783631 for PRODUCTION or, even, when the 3830711 was first available in SERVICE. I believe the 3830711 was used in PRODUCTION and available in SERVICE prior to 7/63. However, we're talking about several months here, at most, and I just can't "pin it down" any closer than I have.

[Michael H.]

Re: Solid lifters

Michael and Duke-----

The 1962 head gasket for all 283's and 327's was GM #3783631. It was replaced by the GM #3830711 in July, 1963. However, that does not mean that's when the 3830711 replaced the 3783631 for PRODUCTION or, even, when the 3830711 was first available in SERVICE. I believe the 3830711 was used in PRODUCTION and available in SERVICE prior to 7/63. However, we're talking about several months here, at most, and I just can't "pin it down" any closer than I have.

Thanks Joe. I knew the 3830711 couldn't have been the original part number for 62 and early 63 but I don't have a 62 parts book so I couldn't come up with the 62 part number.

I agree, we'll probably never know when the change to the 3830711 actually occured at the Flint engine plant.