67 Gauge cluster removal advice

[Gerard F.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Jerry, thanks for the help. I do in fact have hazards working in the front and rear. So I am guessing it's the brake switch. How the heck do I get it out to replace? Looks impossible to access the wires. Do I remove the adjustment nut and slide it out towards the front of the car and then disconnect/recoonect the wiring? I looked from all sides and angles and don't have clear access to it from anywhere. Let me know if you have any suggestions. ARA

Ara,

Like Jack H says in the other thread, it is a piece of cake getting to the brake switch. You just have to contort your body to get your head and arms under the dash, upside down on your back. Ouch. You're are a lot younger than Jack or I, and I'm sure you can do it with a lot more flexibility.

If you are going to address both the amp gauge and the brake switch, the ultimate in comfort would be to take the drivers seat out (4 easy bolts on a 67) and use some strategically place pillows. Still after you are done, take two Advils before you go to bed.

Have fun,

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

George and Jerry, thanks for the posts - and to all who gave advice. George, do you happen to recall which wire at the firewall harness the amp gauge is operated by? I am digging to find my wiring diagram. How did you clean the connection? Did you spray that fast-dissolving electrical connection cleaner in it?

Jerry, that seat will be coming out trust me. Not sure how you knew I was younger than you but boy I don't need any more stiff necks or sore backs. I did a frame off on a 69 Camaro with no lift and that confirmed for me I am not as young as I think...Hurt for months but boy was it worth it. She runs like an animal. Am going to check the gauge with a 1.5 volt battery tomorrow night, as well as the wire at the main harness on the firewall before removing the gauge. Thanks again for all the help. It's SUPER appreciated. ARA

[John H.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

do you happen to recall which wire at the firewall harness the amp gauge is operated by?

Ara -

There are two sense wires on the battery gauge, both of which pass through the inboard multiple connector on the engine side of the fuse block. One is black and goes to the battery cable stud on the starter solenoid, and the other one is black/white and goes to the screw terminal buss on the horn relay.

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Thanks John. How would you recommend I go about checking/cleaning the connections to make sure that's not causing the gauge's inability to operate? Should I spray some fast dissolving electrical connection cleaner with the battery disconnected? Jiggle the wires around to see if the gauge begins working momentarily?
I got some wires and will solder the ends to a 1.5 volt battery as previously suggested to check the gauge. Does it matter which terminal end of the gague I connect the positive and negative wire lead to? I sure don't want to short out a working gauge. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for the post. Regards. ARA

[George T.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

When you get the harness loose, you can remove the wire from the plastic connector by using a stiff wire to collapse the tab and remove the wire terminal from the plastic connector. Clean it with a brass bristle brush. I wouldn't use any corrosive cleaners. Put some dielectric grease on the terminals when you put it together and it should be OK.

[William C.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

the connections at the front of dash in a midyear are a "twinlock" design, with the same terminal being used on both sides of the connection. I've attached a copy of a print of the terminals used, with the lock "tangs" identifed in the various views. Both locks must be depressed using a thin screwdriver or similar tool to remove the termianl, then after cleaning the tangs can be reconfigured to the outboard position as pictured and replaced into the plastic housing. Do not exert force to remove as the little tangs have been known to slice thru the plastic locks in the housing if not depressed, rendering the furthur use of the housing someone problematic.

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Thanks Bill. Appreciate the reply and the attached picture. I will look into it this weekend, along with tackling the brake light switch. Will keep you all posted on the diagnosis and results. Thanks again. ARA

[Jack H.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

As Culp says, a 1.5V battery connected one way then the other WILL exercise the ammeter. But, consider his disclaimer to only MOMENTARILY connect it because that much drive voltage WILL PEG the meter!

I test these on my electrical bench and have a variable voltage/variable current power supply. Here's a HINT... A battery voltage of 0.5 VDC equates to a nice safe ammeter excursion of roughly 40A on the scale.

Check at your grocery store/Radio Shack outlet to see if there's an off-the-shelf battery that's in this range. Then, you won't have to worry about 'pegging' the ammeter...

[Joseph S.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Hi Ara, Looks like you've got some good advice on the gauge repair. I have also replaced a guage without taking the cluster from the car. Just have patience and you'll be fine. If you already have the new gauge you can double check your issue by making an extension harness and plug into the new gauge while hoding it in your hand. I have done that many times to check a questionable gauge.

I want to comment on your estimate of 75 points as a deduction for added side pipes. You may be a bit conservative here. Remember everything affected by removing under car exhaust and adding side exhaust. You have the loss of a complete exhaust system (40 pts); wrong rocker panels (30 pts); no exhaust bezels (8 pts); then you have the issues/dammage to the body and birdcage which is up to the judges discretion (4 to 8 pts for missing fender/quarter panel tips) (2 to 4 points for rocker panel tabs being cut off) and "I think" finally a few points being deducted for having the wrong rear exhaust panel. So you could be as high as 85 to 90 points.

Good luck with the gauge issue and the stiff neck!!! See you in FL for the regional. Or Marlboro next month if you come up.

Joe

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Hey Joe, nice hearing from you. I am going to check the gauge and the wiring while the gauge is still in the car. I got my horns situation worked out, and the brake switch is on it's way. I only have this gauge issue to work out (as of now, God knows what will turn up over the coming months...)
I am trying to see if I can make it up to Marlboro. I really would like to come up. Regardless, I will be at Kissimmee with my Lynndale car. Hope you are well. thanks for the insight too on the exhaust, I know the points will be in that range. I bought the car because it had pipes, and I do not want to convert it back to under car exhaust even though I have the original rear valance already painted. The car is the way I want it, so we'll see. Otherwise, she's all correct.
Will keep you all posted on the gauge diagnosis. Thanks to ALL for your input and advice.

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Well gentleman, I tackled the brake switch this morning and that was the problem!!!!!!! Stiff neck, but jumped out of the car using my old Lacrosse stick in my hand to depress the brake pedal and all 4 brake lights shined nice and bright.....Thank you ALL for all you insight, advice and diagnosing assistance.. Couldn't have done it without you....Now on to the amp gauge. Figured while I am busy and the neck hasn't stiffened up (yet) from doing the brake switch I figured I would try to test and diagnose the amp gauge. One step closer to Kissimmee and one less task to mark off the "Road to Kissimmee" list I have... Thanks again guys.....ARA

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Ok guys, I checked the gauge with a AA battery as you suggested and the gauge sweeps......As such, I think I can remove the gauge itself as the culprit. Where should I go from here???? Could the wire connector at the back of the gauge be bed? It looks new and has clean terminals inside the housing. I got the correct wiper arms and blades and inserts on it today in conjunction with fixing the brake lights, so it's been a productive day so far but I want to get this gauge working. Any ideas????? Help???? Thanks again - SUPER much......ARA

[Gerard F.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Ok guys, I checked the gauge with a AA battery as you suggested and the gauge sweeps......As such, I think I can remove the gauge itself as the culprit. Where should I go from here????......ARA

Ara,

If the gage is good I think I'd start tracing the two wires back through the firewall connector to their point of termination in the engine compartment, looking for an open.

By my 67 wiring diagram, the black wire from the ammeter terminates to a fusible link near the starter solenoid which connects to the orange wire connected to the starter solenoid.

The black with white tracer from the ammeter connects to the horn relay through a fusible link located near the horn relay.

Did I say "fusible link" . That probably should be the very next things to check.

Cheers, take two Advils when you are done.

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Hey Jerry, thanks for the post. I checked the harness at the firewall and sure enough the wire on the passenger side harness on the bottom left was corroded. I cleaned the connections and blew it with some air. Plugged it back in and it seems that that was the fix...However, my other car's amp gauge sweeps positive when I rev the engine. The gauge in this car stays at neutral, but moves negative side when I use the lights for example. It goes to the positive side a hair when I rev the engine. Not as much as my other car though. It never moved before, so the movement shows it's working now. Is it supposed to sweep to the positive side when I hit the gas? I am not sure. If not, the gauge is working and I am MORE than happy with today's achievements...Let me know if you get a second....Your input is ALWAYS appreciated, as is everyone else's...Super appreciated....ARA.

[Gerard F.]

Re: 67 Gauge cluster removal advice

Hey Jerry, thanks for the post. I checked the harness at the firewall and sure enough the wire on the passenger side harness on the bottom left was corroded. I cleaned the connections and blew it with some air. Plugged it back in and it seems that that was the fix...However, my other car's amp gauge sweeps positive when I rev the engine. The gauge in this car stays at neutral, but moves negative side when I use the lights for example. It goes to the positive side a hair when I rev the engine. Not as much as my other car though. It never moved before, so the movement shows it's working now. Is it supposed to sweep to the positive side when I hit the gas? I am not sure. If not, the gauge is working and I am MORE than happy with today's achievements...Let me know if you get a second....Your input is ALWAYS appreciated, as is everyone else's...Super appreciated....ARA.

Ara,

Sweeping over to the positive side depends upon the state of charge of the battery. With a fully charged battery, it should sweep into the positive only for a short time just after you start it, and then go back to the positive side of zero even with your lights on.

Try this:

Without starting the car, turn you headlights on and you should see the ammeter go negative. You are drawing from the battery.

Start the car, and you should see the ammetter go positive then drop back to near zero. Bring it up to about 1500 rpm

Then turn your high beams on, and then your heater blower on high.
If you see the ammeter respond more postive as you turn these things on, then you are OK. That's the way it is supposed to work.

If the needle doesn't respond to the positive, and goes future negative, then you have a problem with the alternator or voltage regulator, or one of the contacts in that circuit.

Hopefully, it is just a fully charged battery.