early fuelie 461X heads

[Bill B.]

The heads for 1961 fuel cars, 461X had the tips removed from the camel hump symbols. The later version 1962 461X symbols were all round. Does anyone have any pictures of the two different types of symbols for these heads and the date or production number of when it was revised?

I appreciate it, Bill Berger

1961 Black/Silver/Red Int. 283/315 FI
power windows. Frame off 65% completed.
1989 White/hard top/Grey Int. daily driver 167,000 miles

"The problem with Liberalism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher

[Mike E.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

The heads for 1961 fuel cars, 461X had the tips removed from the camel hump symbols. The later version 1962 461X symbols were all round. Does anyone have any pictures of the two different types of symbols for these heads and the date or production number of when it was revised?

I appreciate it, Bill Berger

1961 Black/Silver/Red Int. 283/315 FI
power windows. Frame off 65% completed.
1989 White/hard top/Grey Int. daily driver 167,000 miles

"The problem with Liberalism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher

Bill--I have not seen rounded humps until about January of 1962 (so a large number of 62's also came with flattened humps--those heads were also on 62 300 and 340 cars as well as fuelies. I've seen a few flattened hump heads as late as May 62--but for the most part, the changeover came January-February of 62.

[Bill B.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Mike - I wasn't aware that all 461's symbols were flattened on top on this early production. I was told many moons ago that the fuelies were the only ones that had this flattened symbol.....You have set the tables straight and brought me up to date!....ha ha ha! Also I appreciate the dates, do you know of anyone who has pictures of these two different symbols?

Thanks for your quick reply, Bill

[Ray C.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Bill,

Send me you email address and I will attach a file of pictures and dates of 461-X heads.

Ray

[Bill B.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Bill,

Send me you email address and I will attach a file of pictures and dates of 461-X heads.

Ray

OK, I sent you an email.

I appreciate it, Bill

[Stuart F.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

I have asked this question before and got "Yes/No" answers from a number of reliable sources; Does my 63 340hp L-76 engine have 461X heads on it ?

I have yet to have to pull the engine down to check as I understand that the "461X" would only be seen on the underside portion of the head in the valley. I don't know if I pulled the manifold if I could see with a mirror and light or not.

If true, it would help explain why the 63 L-76 is more than a match for any later L-76 or L-84, for that matter. Mine never took a back seat to either through 1965, that I can attest to.

Stu Fox

[Ray C.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Hi! Stu

Good read!

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?t=56239&highlight=461X&uid=1926

Ray

[Joe C.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Hi! Stu

Good read!

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?t=56239&highlight=461X&uid=1926

Ray

Nice research Ray...........you found it quicker than I did! That should answer some questions about ID-ing an "X" head without any disassembly.

STU:
Can you explain what you mean by "more than a match for......."? How were the cars matched other than engine? Gears? Tires? Drivers? Speeds involved?
I'll bet that in a scientific test of a 1963 L76 vs a 64-65 L76, that the early engine "walks" the later one out of the hole, but the later engine will easily outrun the early one on the top end.

[Stuart F.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Ray;

Thanks for that reference. I had not seen that discussion before, but I was aware from others about the cover screw boss situation. It was also explained to me by a fellow NCRS member with a Z-06 L-84 at a show. Mine passed the test, but there is no substitute for an actual visual verification that they are 461-X heads. Maybe someday mine will get an inspection, but perhaps not in my lifetime.

Stu Fox

[Stuart F.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Joe;

My experience "back in the day" was that most of my friends (and others)with later L-76 and L-84 Vettes preferred 3.70, 4.11 and 4.56 finals. I, from prvious experiences with 59 police equipped Biscaynes, ordered mine with a 3.36. I would never challenge them off the line, but rather mix wheels from 30 mph on up. On the old Wisconsin country roads, a lot of the action took place on curves a straight aways. We called that "Rat Racing" and my 63 ruled. I have since learned that the reason the 63-65 fuelies didn't always match up to the L-76's was due to the inherent leanness. Perhaps others may comment.

Stu Fox

[Bill B.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Joe;

My experience "back in the day" was that most of my friends (and others)with later L-76 and L-84 Vettes preferred 3.70, 4.11 and 4.56 finals. I, from prvious experiences with 59 police equipped Biscaynes, ordered mine with a 3.36. I would never challenge them off the line, but rather mix wheels from 30 mph on up. On the old Wisconsin country roads, a lot of the action took place on curves a straight aways. We called that "Rat Racing" and my 63 ruled. I have since learned that the reason the 63-65 fuelies didn't always match up to the L-76's was due to the inherent leanness. Perhaps others may comment.

Stu Fox

Stu - It sounds like you have a great running 63. Not taking anything away from that, but there are many reasons why so many (competitors) cars are not adequate. Vacuum advance, centrifugal advance, dwell, plug gap, octane ratings, a fresh tune up, and the best on of all, shifting that 4 speed like an automatic. I saw many racers in my day, that shifted those 4 speeds like their grandmother....going to church!!! I'm talking clutch in....shift gear....let clutch out...churp the tires....I can have a hot dog & a coke between their lighting quick shifting. So the bottom line, there all so many variables to consider, of course in addition to what you stated.

Bill

[Stuart F.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Bill;

So right you are. I will say this though, even though I can power shift with the best of them (record holding 57 Chevy post B/S @ Great Lakes Dragway, 1961), I found that that was not a necessity with the tall gearing - winding out was the ticket. Also, You have to be a little nuts like me to go fearless above 120 mph with a C-2. I used to live for speed, but I'm not sure if I still have that anymore - I will find out next week at Daytona when I cash in my Birthday present with a "Richard Petty Experience". I'm hoping they will let me get some laps at 160 or better - we'll see.

My vehicles, including the 63, have always been kept in a high state of performance tune. I recently overcame the lousy gas situation, such that the car runs better than ever regardless of the ambient conditions (here in Florida). It runs so good that it is almost scary. I will have to document my changes someday and share with others as I have already promised.

Stu Fox

[Bill B.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Bill;

So right you are. I will say this though, even though I can power shift with the best of them (record holding 57 Chevy post B/S @ Great Lakes Dragway, 1961), I found that that was not a necessity with the tall gearing - winding out was the ticket. Also, You have to be a little nuts like me to go fearless above 120 mph with a C-2. I used to live for speed, but I'm not sure if I still have that anymore - I will find out next week at Daytona when I cash in my Birthday present with a "Richard Petty Experience". I'm hoping they will let me get some laps at 160 or better - we'll see.

My vehicles, including the 63, have always been kept in a high state of performance tune. I recently overcame the lousy gas situation, such that the car runs better than ever regardless of the ambient conditions (here in Florida). It runs so good that it is almost scary. I will have to document my changes someday and share with others as I have already promised.

Stu Fox

Stu - Take lots of pictures, and please post them all. Good luck,

Bill

[Kenneth F.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

I have a pair of 461X heads that are not being used. The date on both is L-8-2. There is one X on each head, located about one inch inward from the intake gasket surface, below a water passage. I looked at a 327 engine that has the intake manifold removed, and I believe that the X would be visible if that head on the engine had the X. While looking at the 461X heads, I noticed that one head had a number 1, the other head had a number 2. I was told that this set of heads came off the same engine.
Ken

[Will B.]

Re: early fuelie 461X heads

Where were the numbers, 1 and 2? I should have a set from the same engine, since they are 10 days apart...