What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight! - NCRS Discussion Boards

What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

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  • Clark K.
    Expired
    • January 12, 2009
    • 536

    What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

    If someone would have told me just a year ago that I would ON PURPOSE spray orange engine enamel so sloppily so as to cover a hose and clamps, I would have told them that they were crazy...not ever going to happen.
    Well, in preparing my chapter Top Flight '65 L76 coupe for the upcoming October regional meet, I did just such a thing.

    The previous owner of this car must have gotten two water pump fittings confused in the JG. He had the hexagonal elbow above the water pump unpainted and had painted the lower cad-plated hose fitting. He had it backwards.

    I have attached the before and after photos for your amusement. The "after" photo shows the fittings corrected and the sharpest eyes will spot that the worm clamp has been removed from the nearby heater hose, leaving the correct spring wire clamp. The "after" photo also shows the deliberatly messy application of orange.

    Of course, if any of you judges spot something I missed, please tell me. There seems to be no limit to my sick goal of perfection!

    We are only temporary caretakers of these historic American automotive icons. It behooves us to always do our best for them. -Clark
    Attached Files
  • Patrick H.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • December 1, 1989
    • 11643

    #2
    Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

    Originally posted by Clark Kirby (49862)
    Of course, if any of you judges spot something I missed, please tell me. There seems to be no limit to my sick goal of perfection!

    -Clark
    No orange overspray present on your nice pretty aluminum intake manifold, either.

    Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
    71 "deer modified" coupe
    72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
    2008 coupe
    Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

    Comment

    • Clark K.
      Expired
      • January 12, 2009
      • 536

      #3
      Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

      Patrick, You are correct. There also should be some silver overspray on the hose and clamp that is closest to the intake manifold. At least that is what I am hearing from the experts. Your photo seems to be of an engine that is out of the car, making it very easy to "do the overspray thing". Alas, mine is still in the car, making such an application of glorious engine orange problematical without some dissasemby that I am not yet willing to do. -Clark

      Comment

      • Patrick H.
        Beyond Control Poster
        • December 1, 1989
        • 11643

        #4
        Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

        Originally posted by Clark Kirby (49862)
        Patrick, You are correct. There also should be some silver overspray on the hose and clamp that is closest to the intake manifold. At least that is what I am hearing from the experts. Your photo seems to be of an engine that is out of the car, making it very easy to "do the overspray thing". Alas, mine is still in the car, making such an application of glorious engine orange problematical without some disassembly that I am not yet willing to do. -Clark
        Clark,

        Consider looking into an inexpensive airbrushing kit.

        Patrick
        Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
        71 "deer modified" coupe
        72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
        2008 coupe
        Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

        Comment

        • Michael F.
          Very Frequent User
          • January 1, 1993
          • 745

          #5
          Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

          back in the day (my families new 68), never had overspray so dealer either took it off (unlikely at this dealer), was not on ALL cars or ncrs doing it wrong and got that way by listening to someone not really knowing......which is it?????
          Michael


          70 Mulsanne Blue LT-1
          03 Electron Blue Z06

          Comment

          • Terry M.
            Beyond Control Poster
            • September 30, 1980
            • 15599

            #6
            Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

            You got THE 1968 that was destined for a NCCC show.
            Terry

            Comment

            • Brandon T.
              Very Frequent User
              • October 23, 2008
              • 872

              #7
              Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

              I have pictures of my dads 66 when he owned it which at the time I think he bought it in 69..it doesn't look to have overspray from the pics.

              I personally couldn't make myself put overspray on my 68's intake after I refinished it and had it looking like new again.

              then again I'm not having my car judged..

              Comment

              • Michael H.
                Expired
                • January 29, 2008
                • 7477

                #8
                Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                Originally posted by Brandon Thompson (49614)
                I have pictures of my dads 66 when he owned it which at the time I think he bought it in 69..it doesn't look to have overspray from the pics.

                I personally couldn't make myself put overspray on my 68's intake after I refinished it and had it looking like new again.

                then again I'm not having my car judged..
                If your dads 66 was a big block, there would be very little orange on the bypass hose. During the paint operation, a mask was placed over the hose and you would only see some orange at each end of the hose and a slight mist of overspray that crept under the mask.

                If it was a small block, the hose and fitting would be nearly completely covered in orange, at least on the top and front sides.

                Comment

                • Brandon T.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • October 23, 2008
                  • 872

                  #9
                  Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                  Originally posted by Michael Hanson (4067)
                  If your dads 66 was a big block, there would be very little orange on the bypass hose. During the paint operation, a mask was placed over the hose and you would only see some orange at each end of the hose and a slight mist of overspray that crept under the mask.

                  If it was a small block, the hose and fitting would be nearly completely covered in orange, at least on the top and front sides.
                  it was a indeed a bb so that explains it

                  Comment

                  • Jack C.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • September 30, 1992
                    • 1090

                    #10
                    Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                    On the "Before" pix, I always wonder why would someone go through all the detailing trouble and expense and place a cogged type belt (AC) on instead of what is correct for the application.
                    Jack Corso
                    1972 Elkhart Green LT-1 Coupe 43,200 miles
                    Top Flight 1994, 2018 & 2021

                    Comment

                    • Wayne B.
                      Expired
                      • September 30, 2000
                      • 201

                      #11
                      Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                      Required Corvette restoration tool...the airbrush. Isn't it the manual somewhere?

                      Comment

                      • Alan D.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • January 1, 2005
                        • 2038

                        #12
                        Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                        A little confused on which came first - the orange then the silver, yes.
                        (May need to purchase one of those tools)

                        So on Clark's engine would think he needs more silver in intake valley (some on valve gaskets) and on the coolant manifold outlet (nuts & bolts).

                        Now is Patrick's orange on front of aluminum intake a little too high, I expected to see the sliver down to gasket with silver overspray onto orange (perhaps it only looks like the orange is oversprayed onto silver)

                        Does Michael have any original photos of this area?

                        Comment

                        • Michael H.
                          Expired
                          • January 29, 2008
                          • 7477

                          #13
                          Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                          Originally posted by Alan Drake (43261)
                          A little confused on which came first - the orange then the silver, yes.
                          (May need to purchase one of those tools)

                          So on Clark's engine would think he needs more silver in intake valley (some on valve gaskets) and on the coolant manifold outlet (nuts & bolts).

                          Now is Patrick's orange on front of aluminum intake a little too high, I expected to see the sliver down to gasket with silver overspray onto orange (perhaps it only looks like the orange is oversprayed onto silver)

                          Does Michael have any original photos of this area?
                          Alan,

                          Once the engine assy is painted orange, a coating of dull aluminum was applied to cover the intake manifold gasket surface of the cyl heads and the thermostat housing area. This operation would often cover at least a good portion of the inboard surface of the valve covers, the sides of the manifold and a wisp of light overspray that would almost always appear on the manifold end of the bypass hose and clamp. The inboard edges of the valve cover gaskets and the temp sender wire retainers under the valve cover screws would also have the dull aluminum coating. (retainers not coated on 62)

                          Because the water pump bypass hose and fitting were installed before the engine was painted, both would be mostly coated orange, including the clamps. I notice that many restored engines are prepared/painted before the hose and fitting are installed.

                          An entire chapter could be written about the details of the engine paint process.

                          And I agree, the dull aluminum should be applied with an air brush, or at least some form of a real spray gun. Not a spray can. You will not get the desired results with spray can painting. The "mist" over the end of the cyl head was just that. A mist. That can't be properly duplicated with a spray can.

                          Much of the orange on the front of an aluminum intake manifold would be mist overspray that finds it's way under the mask but some areas are direct hit and receive a normal coat. It would depend on how the mask sat on the engine and/or the angle of spray. The front vertical surface of some manifolds could be completely covered with orange while most others only had a minimum amount of direct hit along with the mist coat.

                          The photo below is a 340 HP 63 engine that has only 200 miles on it. The complete engine assembly was purchased new (through channels/friends in GM) and painted black/blue, then installed in a Ferrari that has been in storage since 1963. The original orange is visible on the front of the intale manifold. A mist of dull aluminum can also be seen at the end of the cyl head.
                          Last edited by Michael H.; September 23, 2009, 05:07 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Clark K.
                            Expired
                            • January 12, 2009
                            • 536

                            #14
                            Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                            Originally posted by Jack Corso (21713)
                            On the "Before" pix, I always wonder why would someone go through all the detailing trouble and expense and place a cogged type belt (AC) on instead of what is correct for the application.
                            Jack, I never noticed the A/C compressor belt being cogged until you pointed it out. Since the belt was on the car when I bought it 8 months ago, I never gave it any thought. I am in the process of correcting those items that lost originality points at last April's chapter flight judging (Top Flight-96.3%). I am using the judging score sheets for guidance and there is no mention of an incorrect hose. I just looked in the mechanical section of the 1965 JG and there is no mention of the A/C belt at all, which is sort of surprising. If it's not in the JG, it is not judged. -Clark

                            Comment

                            • Terry M.
                              Beyond Control Poster
                              • September 30, 1980
                              • 15599

                              #15
                              Re: What we have to do to make our cars Top Flight!

                              Originally posted by Clark Kirby (49862)
                              I just looked in the mechanical section of the 1965 JG and there is no mention of the A/C belt at all, which is sort of surprising. If it's not in the JG, it is not judged. -Clark
                              Don't believe that for even a second. Judges can, and will judge "outside the manual." And that is good because the TIM&JG is not perfect.

                              That said you have just found that judging is not a perfect process. For any number of reasons judges will fail to deduct for obvious non-typical factory production. That is why the more eyes that look at your car the greater the chance that deviations will be detected.
                              Terry

                              Comment

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