Paint Question

[Howard P.]

I am in the process of having a repaint done on my 67 Goodwood Green code 983AA. With my research I am finding great reluctance from fellow car owners to openly reveal what paint family and brand are being used, I suspect this is due to judging scrutiny. I understand that the preferred family is Lacquer however with availability being very sparse other families must now be considered. We are preparing the car for flight judging standards however I am very confused to which way to go with paint, I wish to replicate factory appearance but doubt that the original paint family is either available in my area or my painter has other preferences. Does anyone have suggestions or recommendations from recent experience as to family of paint product and specific brand allowing the most accurate color match for this specific color. I have been told that single stage urethanes are very difficult to apply due to the dark color metallic and best choice will be base/clear products.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

[Rich P.]

Re: Paint Question

Howard,

I painted a 435 roadster last year. It also was goodwood green. I spent many hours coming up with the correct formula in Lacquer we finally had a mix that was matched to an original paint car. The only brand you will get now is PPG. So it can be done but it aint easy.
You need to keep in mind that todays lacquer is not the same as 25 years ago. It will mark every time you get tree sap, bird crap or spill gas on it fueling it up. It stays soft for 4-6 months after you paint it. It scratches and imprints easily from car covers. It's high mantinence!!! But when done right is breathtaking. Just make sure that you want to trade 25 years of high maintinece for a few hours of judging on the show field. Don't get me wrong I am painting 3 more lacquer jobs for customers this year and will continue to do so. But if you put some time into getting a good urethane formula you might be just as happy.

Rich

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint Question

Howard, you are asking one of the hardest questions for the greater NCRS community to answer right now. From everything I have heard and read, this is THE most widely discussed and contested area of judging right now.

With that said, my best understanding is this. The paint judging SHOULD come down to how distinct the image is that is reflected in the paint finish. In other words, how much orange peel is there? I've been told that having a perfectly orange peel FREE paint job, is not typical with factory production. Yet, when I looked at a 9,000 mile 67 with original paint earlier in the month, I could PLAINLY read a printed card with text in its paint.

Anyway, if I were you, I'd go with base coat / clear coat and NOT buff the car. I actually went with bc / cc and the body shop and I agreed to buff the car. Well, that got rid of a LOT of orange peel. The car looks fantastic, but I'm sure I'll get a deduction of some kind. (hopefully not a full deduction).

Also, my understanding about paint is when a judge is not 100% sure about how to "make the call on it", they default down to the other painted areas that were NOT buffed from the factory. Those are the drip rails under the hood, the wiper grills and the door jambs. If those areas have a dull appearance, then my understanding is that there SHOULD only be a 25% deduction in points. That means that the "body paint" section on the judging sheet (25 originality points and 20 condition points) SHOULD only get an 11.25 point (or rounded down to 11 point) deduction. If the paint job is new, I would doubt that you'd get any condition deduction.

That's my opinion, being a relatively new judge (level 3).

You'll notice no where in there did I say "the paint appears to be lacquer" or "the paint appears to be bc/cc". It isn't about what MATERIAL the paint is, but how the paint APPEARS.

[Howard P.]

Re: Paint Question

Rich & Chris

Thanks for your responses. Based upon what I pick-up from this and APPEARANCE being the foremost criteria and the family being primarily available today being base/clear, what brands of paint are the most true to original factory color representation or is it best for one to have the computor scan done on a known reasonably correct part for color match. What about a condition were one is not sure of the correctness of the current as replicated color when the vehicle has been through a previous re-paint ?

We have produced a spray out test strip using Dupont however when compared to other Goodwood Green cars the sprayout appears somewhat darker. I'm not certain that sprayouts may produce the most accurate of results for comparative purposes. We only want to paint the car once !

My question here should perhaps be .... is there one brand manufacturer of paint that better represents the original color when selected under, in this case, the 983AA paint code.

Thanks again

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint Question

Honestly, I don't remember what brand of paint my body shop used (it was almost 2 years ago now). I think it was PPG.

[Wayne B.]

Re: Paint Question

Howard, I don't have an answer on your color, sorry, but Chris, after spending the day in lacquer fumes I have to add to some of what you said. It can get crazy. I found myself laying down a great layer of lacquer then coming back and laying down another to get more orange peal. Now, at what hour of inhaling lacquer fumes do you see the madness in this? I taped off the front pilars of my door jams because they looked unscathed by time and I figured no one could argue if I could come back and say "No way, that's the original!" So, at what hour of inhaling lacquer fumes is that sanity? Not making light (well maybe a little to illustrate), just pointing out the big question... do we really need to recreate a careless job by a hurried worker to represent an American icon? OK, the NCRS is about restoring to "originality" but hey, we can save one of each for the Smithsonian if they want but maybe the intent and vision of the designers should count for something.

[Rich P.]

Re: Paint Question

Howard,

your biggest problem will be getting a custom paint formula made to match the lacquer. The problem is the metalics, what happens is you can get a mix that looks good inside under florecent lights but in full sunlight the metalics are too big they look like a 60 metal flake paint job. you will have to get the mix made with very fine aluminum flakes. It took more than a dozen spray-outs with lacquer so be patient.

As to who's got the best match it will be who can mix with the finest aluminum flakes whils still retaining the right hue.

Rich

[James W.]

Re: Paint Question

Howard, I don't have an answer on your color, sorry, but Chris, after spending the day in lacquer fumes I have to add to some of what you said. It can get crazy. I found myself laying down a great layer of lacquer then coming back and laying down another to get more orange peal. Now, at what hour of inhaling lacquer fumes do you see the madness in this? I taped off the front pilars of my door jams because they looked unscathed by time and I figured no one could argue if I could come back and say "No way, that's the original!" So, at what hour of inhaling lacquer fumes is that sanity? Not making light (well maybe a little to illustrate), just pointing out the big question... do we really need to recreate a careless job by a hurried worker to represent an American icon? OK, the NCRS is about restoring to "originality" but hey, we can save one of each for the Smithsonian if they want but maybe the intent and vision of the designers should count for something.

Howard,

I used a catalyzed enamel when I repainted my car. It is a single-stage paint and, with care, can get close to the original appearance. I know a lot of people won't like that direction, but the results were very good. I used base coat under the deck lid, door jambs and hood ledge. The body was buffed it until I had the right orange peel. I think original cars with little orange peel have been waxed and buffed over the years and probably reduces the orange peel they have. Or maybe the paint line buffer was feeling good that day, who knows. Any paint system can be made to have a near-original appearance. There's a lot of experience on this discussion board, so I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice.

Jim

[Howard P.]

Re: Paint Question

Jim

Thanks much for your comment of catalyzed enamel and base inside the jambs etc. I've never heard of this technique before.

There are many pertinent comments and I feel that NCRS should lighten up on this paint issue as trying to make the "as factory" replication is not really doing the cars justice. Case in point is to look at the new Vettes, I've seen some that are absolutely dreadful and others that are spectacular. I would only make the assumption that some day 20-25 years from now some judge will make the grave error of hitting the poor fellow with a factory spectacular finish with points deductions for "over restored" paint finish. I also own a C-5 from new and it's paint is actually very good with virtually no orange peel.

We are trying to preserve these cars and have them tastefully show worthy.

Thanks for all who responded to my question

[Jim T.]

Re: Paint Question

Howard this is a link from the Corvette Forum of a 67 Corvette that was for sale. It is painted in lacquer the same color you want to paint your 67. You could contact the owner who just sold it and perhaps find out some information. Only wish I could of bought it.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1s-and-c2s-for-sale-wanted/2337459-f-s-1967-vette-convertible.html

[Lorne G.]

Re: Paint Question

Howie, why not use the left over paint from the Willys?
LOL
Lorne

[Page C.]

Re: Paint Question

Hi Chris,
I just take a guess and bet that the door jams and gutters on the 9000 mile original paint car were NOT dull.
Regards
Page Campbell

[Chris E.]

Re: Paint Question

Hi Chris,
I just take a guess and bet that the door jams and gutters on the 9000 mile original paint car were NOT dull.
Regards
Page Campbell

It is hard to describe them, but they were noticably different in appearance when compared to the exterior body panels. I would say they are more dull than the exterior body panels.