69 Zl-1

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Steven, this MEMO entry is very interesting. Does that say Knafel Pontiac on the build sheet? They were heavy into drag racing back then. I think one of their GTOs just sold at an auction earlier this year.

If I am reading that build sheet correctly, I am seeing a special order 455 Ram Air IV engine as installed into this 1970 GTO Judge. Pontiac never built a Ram Air IV in the 455 cubic inch displacement. Is this another car built by GM that they claim was never built??

Has anyone seen this same type of MEMO entry on a Chevrolet build sheet?

I remember someone in the southwest who claimed he had a 1970 LS-6 Chevelle with the L-89 aluminum cylinder head option on his build sheet. Everyone said you could only get the L-89 heads on the L-78 396 option only. Is this another MEMO car?

I'll have to dig that article out. I think the build sheet was in the magazine. Might take me several days to find it.

[Steven H.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Peter

I love talking about this car but it could sure highjack this thread!

It's a LONG story. The one you are thinking at auction did not sell and was probably more of a price test; if we are talking about the same auction. Yes Knafel, and yes Bill was a close friend of Delorean. I have 5 MEMO cars tracked to date and all are of the HP variety, and not just special paint or celebrity cars.

The story goes a white and silver Judge were picked up at Engineering; the white one is the blue and white Tin Indian you saw at auction, this is the silver one which is here in Tulsa. The white one has a VERY special motor and is the original as recieved at Engineering per Bill and Arlen Vanke; the silver also may have had something similar but was blown early on and may be in the hands of Lance Krammer. Codes on the white car block are 9792968 K1 68 cast on back and 545687 EO-3777 #12 stamped on front. The only other block coded similar but codes not disclosed is in the hands of Lance Krammer and he claims it is a splayed 428.

[Bill M.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

So the bottom line is that the yellow car is the real deal with the wrong motor, but the real motor is now for sale in Hemmings, the white car is not a real ZL1, and the Orange car is the other real ZL1. Right? Can some one post a scan of the orange car tank sheet from the magazine? Thanks!

Here's a scan:

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Peter

I love talking about this car but it could sure highjack this thread!

It's a LONG story. The one you are thinking at auction did not sell and was probably more of a price test; if we are talking about the same auction. Yes Knafel, and yes Bill was a close friend of Delorean. I have 5 MEMO cars tracked to date and all are of the HP variety, and not just special paint or celebrity cars.

The story goes a white and silver Judge were picked up at Engineering; the white one is the blue and white Tin Indian you saw at auction, this is the silver one which is here in Tulsa. The white one has a VERY special motor and is the original as recieved at Engineering per Bill and Arlen Vanke; the silver also may have had something similar but was blown early on and may be in the hands of Lance Krammer. Codes on the white car block are 9792968 K1 68 cast on back and 545687 EO-3777 #12 stamped on front. The only other block coded similar but codes not disclosed is in the hands of Lance Krammer and he claims it is a splayed 428.

Steven, I thought that build sheet said 455 but it was actually 4BBL. Sorry.

However, why does one of the scans have a hand written note about the GTO Judge being delivered with a Ram Air V engine that was never to have been produced in an assembly line car?

I apologize that I am not up to date on my Pontiac decoding efforts. But the simple fact that this car was built and delivered with an engine that was never to have been in a brand new car opens up questions regarding any car that was built by GM that might have a unique and confusing build.

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Here's a scan:

I'm sure there is a reason why we can't see the rest of the sheet......

[Steven H.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Peter

These are exactly the type of questions that have turned the Pontiac world upside down over these two cars. This debate all started years ago on yenko.org.

It's a very long story and to avoid highjacking and invading the Corvette exclusive area; I suggest PM, Email, or "phone call".

There is nothing bad; I just don't want to spill this where it isn't wanted.

Steve

918-260-0151

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

OK Steven, no problem.

[Joel F.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Steven and Peter,

I for one do not mind, and in fact find it all quite interesting. Perhaps Peter can start a new topic on GM vehicles built with "unavailable" option combinations. I do not think it is so far off topic to be offensive and IMHO is actually germane as it these things could equally have happened to Corvettes. Some feel there was at least one '66 L88 after all!

[Clem Z.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Steven and Peter,

I for one do not mind, and in fact find it all quite interesting. Perhaps Peter can start a new topic on GM vehicles built with "unavailable" option combinations. I do not think it is so far off topic to be offensive and IMHO is actually germane as it these things could equally have happened to Corvettes. Some feel there was at least one '66 L88 after all!

in 66 it was listed as a H/D 427 and it was a L-88 internals with cast iron heads. john maher also owned one of these. it was a blue coupe tanker and i have a picture around here somewhere.

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Clem, Or Costanzo of Tampa also owned a blue '66 coupe with an early version of the L-88 and raced it for three years before he took delivery of his yellow '69 open chamber L-88 Corvette in January 1969.

There should be one photo of his '66 L-88 coupe in "Corvette Thunder" that was taken at Sebring 1967. At some point during his ownership, he either installed one of the factory prototype cowl induction hoods or he modified his '66 hood into a cowl induction.

Don't know where that '66 L-88 is today.

I have another slide of that car from Sebring '67, but did not have space for it in my book.

Does anyone know where this car is now?

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Clem, Or Costanzo of Tampa also owned a blue '66 coupe with an early version of the L-88 and raced it for three years before he took delivery of his yellow '69 open chamber L-88 Corvette in January 1969.

There should be one photo of his '66 L-88 coupe in "Corvette Thunder" that was taken at Sebring 1967. At some point during his ownership, he either installed one of the factory prototype cowl induction hoods or he modified his '66 hood into a cowl induction.

Don't know where that '66 L-88 is today.

I have another slide of that car from Sebring '67, but did not have space for it in my book.

Does anyone know where this car is now?

[Clem Z.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Clem, Or Costanzo of Tampa also owned a blue '66 coupe with an early version of the L-88 and raced it for three years before he took delivery of his yellow '69 open chamber L-88 Corvette in January 1969.

There should be one photo of his '66 L-88 coupe in "Corvette Thunder" that was taken at Sebring 1967. At some point during his ownership, he either installed one of the factory prototype cowl induction hoods or he modified his '66 hood into a cowl induction.

Don't know where that '66 L-88 is today.

I have another slide of that car from Sebring '67, but did not have space for it in my book.

Does anyone know where this car is now?

john's car is still owned by the guy's son that bought it in 1968 when john got his blue L-88 vert.

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Now that's one Corvette whose tank sheet needs to be seen!

[Clem Z.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Now that's one Corvette whose tank sheet needs to be seen!

i think that tank stickers did not start till 67,correct ? BWTFDIK about tank stickers i am just a motorman.

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Either way, it should have its M-22 unless it was destroyed years ago. I was told that the '66 M-22s were only available with the purpose built 427 Corvettes that year, leaving their current status as extremely valuable. The jury is still out regarding the status of the "HD427"

Also, that rare '66 cowl induction hood better be on it. I have a photograph that declares it's existance.