69 Zl-1

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Here is a few pictures of the Roger's yellow ZL1 from bloomington , next to my L88

I had made arrangements to photograph this yellow ZL-1 for an upcoming book. Once Roger found out who I was, he changed his mind and would not allow me to photograph his car. I've known about its history since those Vette Vue magazines were released back in 1979 or 1980. I guess he didn't want me to take a picture of his engine block!

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Just curious I guess-
I had my '69 certified at Bloomington (1981),and I was next in line to a purported yellow ZL-1 on the judging field. As I remember,there was a problem with the block in this car,and it was awarded a silver cert; as at Bloomington at that time,a car could not be Gold certified if it was determined to not have the original block. I have often wondered if I was sitting beside a real ZL-1 ever since. I don't recall how the judges felt about the rest of the car as far as authenticity. I do remember that every time that car was fired up,you could hear it from any location on that large complex! It would be interesting to know who owned the car then.Is this the car that was bought 10 yrs. later at the marshall's auction?
My reason for asking about vin.#'s to the known ZL-1's at the start of this thread was that occasionally an alum. block of that vintage does surface,and might have a vin derivitive #. If the block and numbers were deemed authentic, and did not match any of the known ZL-1's,then there could be 3,or 4, or even more. Highly unlikely,I agree,but who knows?
Sure wish someone would find all the missing Corvette production info. as it would answer a lot of questions. Ford, Mopar, Pontiac, GM of Canada all have it - why don't we?

I attended that show back in 1981 and have photos of both the yellow and the white Corvettes. That yellow Corvette should be the one you remember from the show. I couldn't get too close to the yellow one, it was surrounded by guys the whole day. I don't think I checked the block on the white one, I figured the judges would take care of that.

[Clem Z.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

I had the opportunity to inspect John's orange ZL-1 at Bloomington back in 1996. At that time it did not have the ZL-1 block installed, an L-88 was there instead. John told me the ZL-1 was in a safe place. However, he did not want to talk about the tank sheet.

Has anyone seen the tank sticker for this orange Corvette?

the picture of the tank sheet is in the corvette fever article. john does have documented proof that the tank sticker paper and ink are at least 40 years old.

[Steven B.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

While researching for my book, I was told the white convertible with the hardtop was an engineering car. It had many 1968 features including the ignition on the dash and the unique '68 doors.

Thanks Peter! I am going to dig out my old magazine with the car and look at what I did not notice before. I always loved that car.

Thanks again!

Steve

[John H.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

I saw the white ZL-1 in the Otis Chandler collection in Oxnard, California in about 1986 and it was presented as the 1 of 2 production. Is the that car lost now and its validity in question. Ed

Ed -

I think that's the one in the Kevin Suydam collection.

[Bill M.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

I had the opportunity to inspect John's orange ZL-1 at Bloomington back in 1996. At that time it did not have the ZL-1 block installed, an L-88 was there instead. John told me the ZL-1 was in a safe place. However, he did not want to talk about the tank sheet.

Has anyone seen the tank sheet for this orange Corvette?

Hi Peter:

I met you at Bloomington this year when I bought your book. I'm saving reading it until the snow flies. (I'm the guy who worked at Tonawanda the summer of '69.) There is a picture of the orange car's tank sticker in the March 2006 issue of Corvette Fever, page 23.

Bill Mashinter

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Another theory is that there were actually 6 ZL1 Corvettes made:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...=4849&uid=4723

I might regret saying this, but I'm going to anyway.

When I first started my research for my L-88 book, I was told to contact one of the retired engineers from the Vince Piggins group. This engineer was most knowledgable about the COPO ZL-1 Camaros. During our conversation, he did mention that a number of ZL-1 Corvettes were tested and evaluated at the Tech Center when they were brand new. He continued to tell me more, but stopped and said that he really shouldn't tell me anymore about the ZL-1 Corvettes since he was more involved with the ZL-1 Camaros.

I also spoke to a well known car magazine editor who told me that he was given the keys to a black 1969 ZL-1 Corvette to use for a couple of days. He told me the interior of the car was very hot and it was difficult to drive in city traffic. He had mixed emotions about it. This was in 1969.

You guys can interpret my interviews any way you want.

I never included any of the production ZL-1 Corvettes in my book because of all the incomplete information out there.

Instead, I covered the road racing history of ZL-1 and L-88 Corvettes in my book.

[Roger A.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

So the bottom line is that the yellow car is the real deal with the wrong motor, but the real motor is now for sale in Hemmings, the white car is not a real ZL1, and the Orange car is the other real ZL1. Right? Can some one post a scan of the orange car tank sheet from the magazine? Thanks!

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

So the bottom line is that the yellow car is the real deal with the wrong motor, but the real motor is now for sale in Hemmings, the white car is not a real ZL1, and the Orange car is the other real ZL1. Right? Can some one post a scan of the orange car tank sheet from the magazine? Thanks!

That's what might happen! However, the tank sheet from the yellow car does not read the same as the tank sheet from the orange car. There is a difference with both the L88 and the ZL1 options showing up as they should.

[William L.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

It took me awhile to find it, but here is a picture of the white ZL1 and its Engine from Bloomington 1981. I thought I had a picture of the eng. pad but I don't.

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

So what's the verdict on the white ZL-1? Great Photo Bill! They are much better than the pics I took with my tiny minolta pocket camera back then! Can anyone provide a good answer about the stripe?

I talked to Gary "The Local Brush" who painted the stripes on all the Baldwin Motion cars back then, and he specifically told me that he did not paint that stripe on that car. Without digging out my old Vette Vues magazines that discussed this car, I can remember some type of entry about the white car being shipped to an unknown area for work and then shipped to Utah to its new owner. The owner was upset that the car had 100 miles on it when delivered.

Anyone??

[William L.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Pete
Back in the mid 80's Joseph Trybulec and I did an interview with a couple of guys that worked in the plant. If I remember right, they seemed to remember a white ZL1 but not so much the yellow one and thought there were more that just 2. They both admitted that back then, that working in the Corvette Plant was just a job and the Corvette was just a car.
Joe has a much better memory than I. Maybe he can put light on it?

[Roger A.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

Does anyone have a scan of the 2 tank stickers they can post? I know i would like to see them!

[Peter G.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

OK, Should we all consider looking at these cars from a different perspective?

There were Shop Order (SO) Corvette built, such as the examples in this year's Bloomington Gold Special Collection. We know they exist eventhough they were not assembly line Corvettes.

We also know that one of our members was assigned the task of looking up information about a particular ZL-1 in an engineering file, but did not find information about that particular car in that specific file.

Could there have possibly been another file or another type of Central Office Order, that we are unaware of, that could explain these ZL-1 Corvettes?

Vince Piggins used the Central Office Production Order (COPO) to produce the ZL-1 Camaros of which a total of 69 were built. I have always wondered about the possibility of other "Orders" that a corporation as large as GM could have or did use to produce whatever car they wanted to produce.

[Steven H.]

Re: 69 Zl-1

The fun these special cars are! Pontiac had a deal similar called a MEMO car; as soon as the car was finished the guy that was in charge of the MEMO build pitched the paper work in the trash can per interview by Fred Simmons still employed by Pontiac at the time a few years ago. And that doesn’t even cover the cars that went to Pontiac Engineering for special favors.

I’m still very curious if the motor this David in CA is the real deal and why Roger isn’t bending over backwards to get it.

FYI I requested photos of the block and stamp pad from David and I did not receive them.

Just for grins I'll show an example from Pontiac; this particular car has caused unsurpassable waves of controversy in the Pontiac field. It was walked through production with three modifications; one of which is less dum dum, and also received special equipment probably in Pontiac Engineering.