Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

[Tom P.]

I ask a related question earlier, with pictures, and so far thare have not been any positive, difinitive answers.
So, here is a follow-on question for that same rearend.
After thorough cleaning of the Oct cast rearend center case (but no blasting), it APPEARS that the rearend center case was painted black FIRST. Then, maybe after the machining operations and/or assembly, the paint markings (yellow/blue) were applied. Clearly they were applied sloppily with a brush that was probably dipped into a nearby paint can.
After the rearend center section was completely finished, it was then installed into an axle housing. Next, the axles and brakes were installed into the housing and the completed axle housing was shipped (in bulk or batches) from the Detroit axle plant to St. Louis WITH PAINT MARKINGS showing. Once the complete axle housing was installed on the frame, along with other chassis components (including front cross member/suspension assembly?????????), then the entire assembled chassis was painted with chassis black, thus covering up any (or most) paint markings that were applied BEFORE various components were installed onto the frame. Based on Judging manuals, "expert" NCRS opinions, Ken Kayser's latest book as well as Noland's book/pictures, this appears to be how it was done.
Now, here is the question.
Is this a correct as to how the chassis painting processes occured on the early cars (56-62) at St. Louis?
I'm attempting to get the correct (as much as is possible) finish on the below rearend.
Again, UNQUESTIONABLY, the yellow and blue paint markings are factory applied-----------------------AND, they are applied on top of a black base coat, but yet none of these paint markings seem to appear on FINISHED cars.
No one could provide difinitive answers regarding the purpose of the yellow/blue markings, so how about the final paint finish?????

[Loren L.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Tom, I would suspect - but cannot prove - that one of the colors indicated Posi vs Non-posi and the other color provided instant recognition as to ratio; any kind of shortcut so that the guy on the line did NOT have to read the stampings to see if the next rear was supposed to go with the chassis being assembled.

[Roy B.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Wasn't a coat of oil tar paint added after the frame was finished to protect against rust with paint markings covered? My 57 was!

[Bill M.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Tom:

Here's a picture of the yellow paint marks on my '59 4.11:1 posi. This center section is original to the car.

I remember the yellow paint marks being clearly visible when I got the car in 1963.

Bill

[John H.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Based on my old notes (and those of Dale Pearman), the axle assembly was painted black at Detroit Gear & Axle, yellow markings went over that, then the whole thing was sprayed with the cheap chassis-blackout paint again at the end of the Chassis Line at St. Louis, just prior to Body Drop.

[Roy B.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Based on my old notes (and those of Dale Pearman), the axle assembly was painted black at Detroit Gear & Axle, yellow markings went over that, then the whole thing was sprayed with the cheap chassis-blackout paint again at the end of the Chassis Line at St. Louis, just prior to Body Drop.

If that's correct as I feel it is then these restored vetts we see with all that (pretty) yellow and white markings should not be showing. Right? Factory out the door it must be

[John H.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

If that's correct as I feel it is then these restored vetts we see with all that (pretty) yellow and white markings should not be showing. Right? Factory out the door it must be

Roy -

That's correct, but most folks who have spent all that time and money on a precise chassis restoration with correct markings want to cover it up with a sloppy spray of gooey chassis-black paint. Can't really blame them.

[Roy B.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Roy -

That's correct, but most folks who have spent all that time and money on a precise chassis restoration with correct markings want to cover it up with a sloppy spray of gooey chassis-black paint. Can't really blame them.

I agree ! but then isn't foolish saying it must be as it left the factory I can count 12 other items not as it left the factory DA! Money rules

[Tom P.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Tom:

Here's a picture of the yellow paint marks on my '59 4.11:1 posi. This center section is original to the car.

I remember the yellow paint marks being clearly visible when I got the car in 1963.

Bill

Bill,
Your picture is nearly identical to those I posted above. So, obviously it seems HIGHLY probable (as John mentioned) that the paint markings were done at the Detroit axle plant, then the completed axle assembly was shipped (in lots???) to St. Louis, where (again as John mentioned) all paint markings were covered up with chassis black.
Now, here is the REAL MEAT of the issue. when restoring parts/assemblies, such as rearends, etc, should the base black paint be applied, then the paint markings duplicated as closely as possible (if pictures were taken as I did, so much the better), and then again, cover it all up with another application of black paint? OR----------------just paint it all black to begin with and forget about the yellow, blue, white, etc, etc, paint markings????? This would also apply to engine blocks which had paint markings applied (sloppily with a brush dipped in a paint can) BEFORE the engine orange paint was applied, right? No? What?

PERSONALLY, I could care less!!!!!
BUT I do have a VERY high regard and appreciation for cars that are restored to this level of detail. My 56 is a personalized car. To heck with head bolt logo (I want fresh, new head bolts), paint marks, shim markings on the frame, sealant dribling down, etc, etc. But, I'm building this rear for a customer and it is going into a somewhat rare, genuine car (58 HD brake car) and so I would like for it to be as correct as possible.

[Roy B.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Bill,
Your picture is nearly identical to those I posted above. So, obviously it seems HIGHLY probable (as John mentioned) that the paint markings were done at the Detroit axle plant, then the completed axle assembly was shipped (in lots???) to St. Louis, where (again as John mentioned) all paint markings were covered up with chassis black.
Now, here is the REAL MEAT of the issue. when restoring parts/assemblies, such as rearends, etc, should the base black paint be applied, then the paint markings duplicated as closely as possible (if pictures were taken as I did, so much the better), and then again, cover it all up with another application of black paint? OR----------------just paint it all black to begin with and forget about the yellow, blue, white, etc, etc, paint markings????? This would also apply to engine blocks which had paint markings applied (sloppily with a brush dipped in a paint can) BEFORE the engine orange paint was applied, right? No? What?

PERSONALLY, I could care less!!!!!
BUT I do have a VERY high regard and appreciation for cars that are restored to this level of detail. My 56 is a personalized car. To heck with head bolt logo (I want fresh, new head bolts), paint marks, shim markings on the frame, sealant dribling down, etc, etc. But, I'm building this rear for a customer and it is going into a somewhat rare, genuine car (58 HD brake car) and so I would like for it to be as correct as possible.

Most agree the frames were painted with a tar type black paint so you should not see the markings . But because most restorer's and judges get a thrill up thier leg seeing them (like when cleaning the frame you find the numbers on the frame driver side) leave the marking there!

[Michael H.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Most agree the frames were painted with a tar type black paint so you should not see the markings . But because most restorer's and judges get a thrill up thier leg seeing them (like when cleaning the frame you find the numbers on the frame driver side) leave the marking there!

The frames were painted (chassis black) at the source, then shipped to the St Louis plant. Most of the markings, other than the part number etc, were probably added at the St Louis plant.

I agree with John, the entire differential housing assembly, including diff, brake backing plates and drums, was coated before it arrived on the assembly line.

Final blackout MAY have coveres SOME of the markings on the frame and differential housing but these items, having already been completely coated, would not be a specific target during final blackout. The targets for final would be areas/items that had not previously been coated such as the entire exhaust system.

GM definitely wouldn't have spent the time or money to completely coat a differential assembly twice.

[Bill M.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Bill,
Your picture is nearly identical to those I posted above. So, obviously it seems HIGHLY probable (as John mentioned) that the paint markings were done at the Detroit axle plant, then the completed axle assembly was shipped (in lots???) to St. Louis, where (again as John mentioned) all paint markings were covered up with chassis black.
Now, here is the REAL MEAT of the issue. when restoring parts/assemblies, such as rearends, etc, should the base black paint be applied, then the paint markings duplicated as closely as possible (if pictures were taken as I did, so much the better), and then again, cover it all up with another application of black paint? OR----------------just paint it all black to begin with and forget about the yellow, blue, white, etc, etc, paint markings????? This would also apply to engine blocks which had paint markings applied (sloppily with a brush dipped in a paint can) BEFORE the engine orange paint was applied, right? No? What?

PERSONALLY, I could care less!!!!!
BUT I do have a VERY high regard and appreciation for cars that are restored to this level of detail. My 56 is a personalized car. To heck with head bolt logo (I want fresh, new head bolts), paint marks, shim markings on the frame, sealant dribling down, etc, etc. But, I'm building this rear for a customer and it is going into a somewhat rare, genuine car (58 HD brake car) and so I would like for it to be as correct as possible.

Tom:

I hope you got an answer for your customer's car.
(I don't remember the center section being painted at all.)
update: I scraped some yellow off with a sharp knife and found no black paint under it.
update: I did find a yellow dot on the passenger side (only) top of the diff case.

Bill

[Don Y.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Tom,
Here are some photos of the center section from my '57 VIN E57S105899. It's a 4.11 posi rear end. The markings were not visible until I cleaned the 50 years of grime off the housing in the parts washer. I was quite surprised at how clear everything was after a gentle cleaning. There was only a small area of black paint still visible on the housing.

[Tom P.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Don,
The yellow on your late 57 rear is virtually the same, but different, from the early 58 rear that I just finished for a customer.
Where (what appears to be) the blue 35 on your case, it is a blue 53 on the one I just finished.
Notice the two blue dots on the one (pictured above) I just did. I don't see anything similar on yours.
Rather than completely obliterate the original paint markings (yellow-blue), I LIGHTLY coated the case with black so that there would be a hint of the paint markings showing through as below.

[Rob M.]

Re: Another question about (58) rearend/chassis finish.

Now, here is the question.
Is this a correct as to how the chassis painting processes occured on the early cars (56-62) at St. Louis?

My best guess is that the paint was applied by an inspector to mark that all bolts at a certain point were tightened, cotter pins were in place, etc... (using the four eyes principle). All to ensure safety and quality!

regards,
Rob.