Early or Late 63?

[John A.]

I just checked the c2registry site to have my car's birthday calculated. It came up with April 18, 1963. How accurate is that and is that considered "early" or "late"?

[Harry S.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

John, I believe that early vs. late on a 63 refers more to a part or component rather than the car itself. For example, I have an April 20th (Saturday) car with an early gas door and late hub caps (not frosted). This has to do with the running changes introduced to the line.

[John A.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Thanks, Harry.

[Tom H.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

I don't know if I would call it late, but I would think you would be too far out to fit into most "early" categories of 63 components.

[Harry S.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Another early part that you might have is the ash tray. The early ash tray had one tang about and inch wide, the late had two tangs about 1/4 inch wide. This is in my April 20th built car.

[Tom H.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Another early part that you might have is the ash tray. The early ash tray had one tang about and inch wide, the late had two tangs about 1/4 inch wide.

Great........ something else I need to check. Never knew that. I don't have the new judging guide with me, what is the break point for these ashtrays ?

[Michael H.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

John, I believe that early vs. late on a 63 refers more to a part or component rather than the car itself. For example, I have an April 20th (Saturday) car with an early gas door and late hub caps (not frosted). This has to do with the running changes introduced to the line.

Yup, and then there's the correct gas door bezel that would be used ONLY with the roller gas door. And several hundred more items that are either early, mid or late for 63.
A Very difficult year to restore if many of the original pieces are missing.

[Harry S.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Tom, the 63/64 JG is silent on this. I Don't know why. I believe the change-over happened at the end of May.

[Tom H.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Thanks Harry !

Tom

[Jack H.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

My take is when there's a running change situation and various contributors to the Judging Guide have differences of opinion over the effective change date, we see political compromise in the JG book. Descriptive text can range from "in the XXXX-YYYY VIN or assy date range" to simply sitting silent on the issue pending further research/resolution.

[Duke W.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

What Harry said, but I'll offer the following. There were several hundred running changes during '63 production, and most of them, particularly those that solved some durability problems (like rear wheel bearings) and upgraded trim pieces where in place by the end of December, 1962.

A couple of changes that occurred after the March time frame were the switch to the Muncie four-speed (and this version was unique to 1963, so some parts can be hard to come by relative to the earlier Borg-Warner T-10 and '64-up Muncie.) and the increase in oil pressure on SHP/FI engines to 60 psi hot at 2000, which was accompanied by a 80 psi IP gage in place of the earlier 60 psi gage on these engines only.

We will probably argue forever when some of these changes that are visually detectable occurred, but the fact remains that many changes took time to fully transition as most "old parts" were used until they were exhausted, and given how parts were inventoried and pulled to place on the line most changes have a "transition" period where any grouping of several hundred sequence numbers (or maybe even a couple of thousand)could have either "old" or "new" parts.

Duke

[Michael H.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

What Harry said, but I'll offer the following. There were several hundred running changes during '63 production, and most of them, particularly those that solved some durability problems (like rear wheel bearings) and upgraded trim pieces where in place by the end of December, 1962.

A couple of changes that occurred after the March time frame were the switch to the Muncie four-speed (and this version was unique to 1963, so some parts can be hard to come by relative to the earlier Borg-Warner T-10 and '64-up Muncie.) and the increase in oil pressure on SHP/FI engines to 60 psi hot at 2000, which was accompanied by a 80 psi IP gage in place of the earlier 60 psi gage on these engines only.

We will probably argue forever when some of these changes that are visually detectable occurred, but the fact remains that many changes took time to fully transition as most "old parts" were used until they were exhausted, and given how parts were inventoried and pulled to place on the line most changes have a "transition" period where any grouping of several hundred sequence numbers (or maybe even a couple of thousand)could have either "old" or "new" parts.

Duke

In the mid/late 70's, I started to make a list of all the running changes for the 63 model. I ran out of ambition long before I ran out of things to record. I still have that list somewhere.

Many of the changes/new design parts were blended in on the assembly line. Many were not.
Some parts or operations that were critical to the operation of the car were changed immediately.
NPC's (Notice of Production Change sheets) would have information that would indicate what was to happen to the existing inventory and when the change would be effective on the line.
If it was an important or critical item, the note would state "TO BE EFFECTIVE" "IMMEDIATELY". "DISPOSITION OF STOCK"..."SCRAP". That would occur if an item was causing a failure or unsafe operation.

Others might show "CHANGE TO BE EFFECTIVE" "AS SOON AS ABOVE RELEASED PART BECOMES AVAILABLE".
DISPOSITION OF EXISTING STOCK" "HOLD EXISTING STOCK OF PART NUMBER XXXXXXX FOR CENTRAL OFFICE MATERIAL DEPT DISPOSITION".
Or, "MIX WITH EXISTING STOCK OF PART NUMBER XXXXXXX".

Jack Knudsen once told me he vividly remembered the day that hundreds of 1st design frosted 63 wheel covers were scrapped when new the 2nd design caps arrived at the plant.
I asked if he remembered when the release of aluminum KO wheel option for 63 was held up. He didn't remember it.
(I have the NPC's on the wheels and adapters but I'm not going to tell you what happened to the "existing stock".

[Duke W.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Frankly, I'm surprised that all those frosted wheel covers were scrapped. I would think that they would have transferred some, if not all, to GMPD since wheelcovers were frequent theft items back then. But then if you owned a new '63 that had its wheelcovers stolen, you probably would have much preferred the new shiny version.

Think of what a few dozen NOS sets of those would be worth, today! Ah, but corporate American doesn't see much beyond the current fiscal year.

From my brief time as a Pontiac production engineer, I can say that the preferred dispostion was "use until stocks are exhausted" unless there were safety or warranty considerations in which case superseded parts were (reluctantly) collected and scrapped.

Duke

[Michael H.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Frankly, I'm surprised that all those frosted wheel covers were scrapped. I would think that they would have transferred some, if not all, to GMPD since wheelcovers were frequent theft items back then. But then if you owned a new '63 that had its wheelcovers stolen, you probably would have much preferred the new shiny version.

Think of what a few dozen NOS sets of those would be worth, today! Ah, but corporate American doesn't see much beyond the current fiscal year.


Duke

I would agree if all those new frosted 63 caps were complete and in a GM box. However, the cap was without the ornaments (ribs and spinner assembled at St Louis) and they weren't in a box with part number that could be sold in service. I supppse the accounting dept decided it would be cheaper, or at least as cost effective, to scrap and write em off instead of going through all the steps to get the parts assembled and boxed for service.
I'm sure most of the master GM warehouses had the early frosted caps in stock.
Bet GM didn't have a whole buncha money invested in all those caps.

Jack told me about this over 30 years ago and I still have nightmares about all those caps sitting in a dumpster.

[Nick M.]

Re: Early or Late 63?

Harry
My 63 is April 22, the Monday after your car was built.