67 Horn button again

[Chris E.]

Well gang, I judged 66 interiors at the Delafield regional yesterday, and learned more interesting stuff.

The one I have a question about is the horn button. Read this thread from a couple years ago.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?t=50843&highlight=horn+button&uid=9552

So here is MY horn button. The car is almost completely original (seats, carpet, cluster, center console, etc, etc). VIN 100183.



My family has owned the car since 1973, and I just asked my dad if he had ever done anything with the horn button. He didn't think so.

Clearly, my horn button has a white square in the top of the right flag. All of the repop parts have a black square in the top of the right flag. The TIM/JG says it should be black. The three 66s I judged (all non-tele cars) had black in the top square.

Yet, in the thread above, there is a post that says both styles are correct, but judges like to see the black square.

So, since I believe mine is original (probably), I'm not inclined to change it.

Thoughts?

[Chris E.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Ok, and a HIGHLY analytical (roll eyes) search of eBay right now brings up a mix.

I found 4 or so cars that have what I have, and a few more cars that have the black on top.

[Stephen L.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Chris,

As I understand it, (these are the photos posted in the post you mentioned) the button on the left is correct for 1967. It has the white corner square in the flag and the rounded surfaces on the outer ring.

The button on the right is from 1966 having the "sharper edge" on the outer ring, as suggested by John Hinckley. The upper square is also black.

I have run into judges in the past that have mistakenly carried over interior items from 1966 and believed they were the same for 1967. 1967 interiors were "reengineered" by GM and some of the small changes are not apparent to them.

[Mark K.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

On page 383 of Nolan Adams Restoration Guide, he shows a picture of a "new" 1967 instrument panel with the flags colors the same as in your picture (with the white on the top left of the flag).

Also, in my unrestored 67 I have the same flag color orientation.

I think the judging manual is wrong in this matter.

[Chris E.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

So, sounds like two votes for "keep it the way you have it" so far, right?

[Peter L.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Chris - 67 S/N 1476 has a white upper corner on the checkerboard flag. I have owned the car since 83 and trust me the folks who owned before me didn't do anything to the car unless it broke and they had to; so I believe it to be the original horn button and I'm sticking with it. Sometimes TIM&JG information is not always as it was. Pete

[Jack H.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Whenever it comes to crossed flag emblems, I consult the JG book text. It seems they changed pattern 'randomly' from year to year (a marketing guy with time on his hands?). Typically, both versions of the pattern are out there for purchase...

One problem is JG book descriptive text. In quite a few cases you can read the words that are actually published and interpret them either way! When we talk about the 'top' are we referring to the nearest the flag pole or furthest away from the flag pole?

In some cases it's not possible to tell based on the specific wording that's published. NTL's should take care to improve their books and make sure what's publishe is totally unambiguous...

[Chris E.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Chris - 67 S/N 1476 has a white upper corner on the checkerboard flag. I have owned the car since 83 and trust me the folks who owned before me didn't do anything to the car unless it broke and they had to; so I believe it to be the original horn button and I'm sticking with it. Sometimes TIM&JG information is not always as it was. Pete

Thanks. I'm just going to bring a copy of this thread to the judging field with me and see how it goes. We'll see what the deduct is. Shouldn't be more than a couple points.

[Rick S.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Here are 2 photos of my 67 horn button. I can not state it is original but have discovered many items to be original/correct because of this website.

Rick

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Chris - 67 S/N 1476 has a white upper corner on the checkerboard flag. I have owned the car since 83 and trust me the folks who owned before me didn't do anything to the car unless it broke and they had to; so I believe it to be the original horn button and I'm sticking with it. Sometimes TIM&JG information is not always as it was. Pete

Back about a hundred years ago, when Zimmerman and I started wondering about the flag pattern in horn caps for 63-67, we started checking all of the cars that came in and out of Classic motors. (there were hundreds)
This was way back when these cars were around ten years old so I have to go with what we learned at that time because the restoration craze was still a few years down the road.

ALL 63 through 66 had the black square in the upper left corner. Many early and mixed mid production 67's had either white or black in the upper left corner. It seemed that late 67's mostly had white upper left squares.

Almost every currently available 67 replacement cap from GM at that time had a white square in the upper left corner.

Trying to do any kind of survey or make sense of what you see today on even very original cars is almost a complete waste of time because so many have been changed or replaced.

I've never seen a 63-66 with a white upper left square that I thought was original.

[Chris E.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Thankfully, this part on 67s is actually CHEAPER than 63-66. It's only $48 through LIC to get one that the judges won't have an issue with because of the text of the book.

[Gerard F.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Sorry Chris, guys,

Here's my 67 original horn button:





Black upper corner on the checkered flag. Guaranteed original to my late 67 (June 29). Honest, I have had no reason to change it in the plus 40 years I have had the car.

I also have a 66 tire pressure decal in my 67 glove box (which I left as is).

Maybe they put a 66 horn button on mine, but it is a keeper.

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Sorry Chris, guys,

Black upper corner on the checkered flag. Guaranteed original to my late 67 (June 29). Honest, I have had no reason to change it in the plus 40 years I have had the car.

Yup, I agree. There's no such thing as an incorrect black/white flag pattern for 67. Either would have been used randomly throughout the 67 model year.

[Chris E.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Sorry Chris, guys,

Here's my 67 original horn button:

Black upper corner on the checkered flag. Guaranteed original to my late 67 (June 29). Honest, I have had no reason to change it in the plus 40 years I have had the car.

I also have a 66 tire pressure decal in my 67 glove box (which I left as is).

Maybe they put a 66 horn button on mine, but it is a keeper.

Jerry, you car looks to be a really late car. My car is a really early car (September 66 with lots of Aug 66 and model year 66 parts).

Thanks for posting, but given the way the dialog was developed, I'm not sure that I'm going to change the horn button out. I just checked the mileage log on the car, and my family has owned it since 38,492 miles. Not sure how likely it is that the first couple owners swapped that out....I'm thinking not very probable.

[Ray G.]

Re: 67 Horn button again

Chris - 67 S/N 1476 has a white upper corner on the checkerboard flag. I have owned the car since 83 and trust me the folks who owned before me didn't do anything to the car unless it broke and they had to; so I believe it to be the original horn button and I'm sticking with it. Sometimes TIM&JG information is not always as it was. Pete

Hello Peter;
Is your button the '66 or '67 style chrome edge?
Seeing Jerrys after your post of his late production could explain early and late.
Also seems to me I remember a "non-glare" for safety came into production somewhere in '67.

Ray