F40/F41 Springs and Judging

[Darwin O.]

Hey Gang!

As I understand it, the F40/F41 spring option was only available with specific engines until '67. What I'm wondering is, if a guy with a '64 300HP car put in new 'correct' F40 springs, what would be the result in terms of judging? Would there be no deductions in points, some deductions, or full deductions (in which case a guy might want to go with modern springs). And, were the shocks the same for the F40/41 cars, and can a guy get new 'correct' replacements?

Auto-X season is going pretty good so far, I'm just sayin'...

Cheers,
Darwin.

[Joe L.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Hey Gang!

As I understand it, the F40/F41 spring option was only available with specific engines until '67. What I'm wondering is, if a guy with a '64 300HP car put in new 'correct' F40 springs, what would be the result in terms of judging? Would there be no deductions in points, some deductions, or full deductions (in which case a guy might want to go with modern springs). And, were the shocks the same for the F40/41 cars, and can a guy get new 'correct' replacements?

Auto-X season is going pretty good so far, I'm just sayin'...

Cheers,
Darwin.

Darwin----


I don't do any judging. However, I would expect that if a 64 L-75 -equipped car was to present itself for judging with F-40 springs, a full deduction on originality would be taken for the springs.

The shocks for F-40 or F-41 were different than those used for standard suspension cars. I know of no current reproductions for ANY of the early Corvette shocks, F-40/F-41 or otherwise.

[Joe R.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

If it ain't like it left the factory, then you are gonna loose points.

And you can mark that in the judging manual.

JR

[Darwin O.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Thanks for the feedback Guys!

A follow up question on judging then: If you take a full originality deduction for incorrect springs, do you get any points for them being of correct construction and finish, or do you loose all possible points for that item? That is, would it be the same total deduction if a guy had totally aftermarket springs in there as F40 springs?

Cheers,
Darwin.

[Gary B.]

F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Darwin,

On the cars I've judged chassis I've never been faced with exactly the situation you've described. Regardless, the approach I prefer to use when assessing originality is the five aspects of: finish, configuration, completeness, date and installation. In the case at hand, I can see giving the owner credit for finish, date and installation, but taking a deduct for completeness and perhaps for configuration. Thus, I can see a good argument for losing at most 40% of the originality points. And if there are other parts included in the spring line items on the scoring sheet, then the total deduct would be less than 40% of the grand total originality points.

If the condition is consistent with the assembly line state, then you could get a zero deduct for condition.

Any others who would judge similarly?

Gary Beaupre
Northern California Chapter

[Jim V.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Gary, I think some would say that since "date" is not an issue for the part in question (spring), deducting for 2 of the 4 facets of originality (completeness and configuration) is a 50% originality deduct.

[Gary B.]

F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Jim,

Removing the date from the mix sounds logical to me. But I think some judges would argue that the 5-factor matrix system should be used for all parts and not modified for a non-dated part.

For the case in question the owner would get 50% or 60% of the available originality points for the HD GM spring and then at least qualify for additional points based on condition.

Gary

[Darwin O.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Thanks for the judging perspective Gentlemen. That helps in the selection of replacement springs. I could stay in the B-Stock category for auto-x with the F40 springs, and not get hit too bad on the judging field. I guess the same arguments can be made for the F40 sway bars as well...

Just got back from my third race of the year, I did ok considering the competition from them tricked out little cars...

Cheers!

Darwin.

[Terry M.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Jim,

Removing the date from the mix sounds logical to me. But I think some judges would argue that the 5-factor matrix system should be used for all parts and not modified for a non-dated part.

For the case in question the owner would get 50% or 60% of the available originality points for the HD GM spring and then at least qualify for additional points based on condition.

Gary

Some judges may take the position that the 5-factors we use in the matrix system are sacrosanct, but they would be wrong. And I would hope that no judge who has been to the Dallas Judging Retreat would take that position.

If there is no date on the part(s) judged in the line item (watch out there are often several parts in a line item) the matrix consists of 4-factors and each is worth 25%. And that's a fact Jack. Now you can do the same if you can find a part with no finish, configuration, completeness, or installation -- but when you find that part, please let us all know.

[Gary B.]

F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Terry,

I learned something today. A good day, that is.

Gary

[Jack H.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

What's your source for believing the Special Front and Rear Suspension Option, F40, was restricted to certain engines? For 1964, Noland Adams' book reads pretty clearly...

ECL= AA
Useage = Unrestricted
Units = 82

Guess I don't 'get it' on the direction of this thread...

[Darwin O.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

What's your source for believing the Special Front and Rear Suspension Option, F40, was restricted to certain engines? For 1964, Noland Adams' book reads pretty clearly...

ECL= AA
Useage = Unrestricted
Units = 82

Guess I don't 'get it' on the direction of this thread...

That's very interesting. My understanding was that it was only available on the FI car in '64, and similarly restricted until '67. Any other thoughts on this?

Cheers,
Darwin.

[Alan D.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

However a note in Adams Book from Chevrolet relative to F40 reads;

"(available only when 375 H.P. engine, 4-speed transmission and positraction rear axle are ordered)"

[Jack H.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Then, we have another little Corvette mystery, don't we? The ECL data Noland quotes specifically contradicts that...

[Jack H.]

Re: F40/F41 Springs and Judging

Whoops, time for that big 'mea culp'...I'M WRONG!

The restriction is sitting right in Noland's cite of the F40 option!

"Note: Must be used with options G81, M20 and L84"

Plus, the limitation is documented in the '63-64 JG book...

So, that makes answering the original question (What would happen if?) pretty easy to answer. If a car showed up with F40 on it (1964) and it wasn't a positraction equipped FI car, the suspension would be deemed a dealer/owner inspired option addition and garner a full deduction.

That's absent owner supplied compelling documentation to the contrary like SO, EO, COPO paperwork to support the car's non-standard factory configuration.