Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

[Harmon C.]

What is the latest word on what caps are being removed for judging. I think Oil and Gas caps are removed but what about radiator and battery caps?

[Bill I.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

No to rad & batt caps. Bill

[Clark K.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

My first flight judging was in early April and I only remember letting down my spare tire, removing the air cleaner and the top of the ignition shielding.

I did not have to remove oil and gas caps. I do remember the judges removing them just for examination and replaced them immediately. What purpose would leaving them off serve since this could be a process where foreign matter could enter these critical areas?
-Clark

[Louis T.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

Hi Clark,

You are correct – these items are not removed by the owner in advance, but briefly by the judges during judging. The wording may have been a little unclear.

Louis

[Patrick H.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

I do not remove the rubber oil caps when I judge.
Ever have one split apart on one of your own cars due to age and brittleness? I'm not about to do that to someone else's car.

I also do not remove battery or radiator caps. I can tell enough about a rad cap from the top.

Patrick

[Terry M.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

I would hope the judges are NOT removing anything from the car, at least not without asking the owner to do so. For the reasons Patrick mentions a judge should ALWAYS ask the owner to remove any parts necessary.

There is no hard and fast rule about removing parts from the car -- other than what I have cited above. One judge may ask to see the underside of the caps mentioned and another may not. That is the way it goes.

Some folks believe strongly on both sides of this issue, and it gets regular airing in judging schools and seminars. I suspect the position of the individual is more determined by whether they think they have something to hide or not.

[Dick W.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

Lyle, the last meeting I sat in on the teamleaders were told not to remove the battery caps. This may have changed.

[Jack H.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

There should be no mystery here. The rule is in your copy of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual. See Section 2, Rule 22:

"Removal of Items for Judging

In order to facilitate, or make possible, the judging of various component parts, numbers and dates, the owner may be requested to loosen or remove certain items at the time of judging and if any tools are required, must be supplied or acquired by the owner. Items may incued (but are not limited to), the air cleaner, road draft tube, automatic transmission linkage mounting bracket, radio ignitino shielding and distributor cap. Only the owner or authorized representative may loosen or remove and replace these items. Should the owner not wish to remove the requested items, appropriate scoring deductions will be made for those components which the judges are unable to visually inspect."

Yes gas caps are routinely removed for the judges to evaluate the source ID emboss to assess originality. I can also understand why judges would want to see the bottom side of radiator caps--the reproductions use a current day pressure relief mechanism while factory originals from the era used a visually different mechanism.

BUT, wisdom should prevail here. Removing the rad cap for a car whose engine is hot from drive-in or Operations Check is UNWISE! Also, it's obvious as to why battery fill cap removal might reveal authenticity information, but, in my book, probing the fill cavitity to detect the presense of actual cell plates goes a bit too far...

[Terry M.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

Point well made Jack. One should always consider safety on the judging field. OTOH, at an indoor meet when the Ops is done before the car enters the hall -- maybe even the day before, the radiator cap ought to be a no-brainer. I have seen folks look at the stamping on the dipstick -- that should be another no-brainer.

I guess I would think twice about the battery caps. Few people now days have experience removing battery caps from a real lead acid battery, and one might consider there is a big difference in accessibility to the battery between various models of Corvette. I can understnd why a judge would want to look into a battery cell, but some caution should be considered. But still you have quoted the instructions.

[Lou C.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

Point well made Jack. One should always consider safety on the judging field. OTOH, at an indoor meet when the Ops is done before the car enters the hall -- maybe even the day before, the radiator cap ought to be a no-brainer. I have seen folks look at the stamping on the dipstick -- that should be another no-brainer.

I guess I would think twice about the battery caps. Few people now days have experience removing battery caps from a real lead acid battery, and one might consider there is a big difference in accessibility to the battery between various models of Corvette. I can understnd why a judge would want to look into a battery cell, but some caution should be considered. But still you have quoted the instructions.

Terry, When judging Chassis we were told by the Team leader not to remove or ask the owner to remove battery caps. Safety reasons.

[Terry M.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

And that is all good, Lou. Dick mentioned a directive from Roy to the Team Leaders some time ago, so maybe the team leaders are following that. I suppose the meet judging chair could make a similar rule for the specific event.

[John D.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

At the latest LI-Meto chapter meet we were told specifically not to look under the battery caps by the team leader. We did look under every oil fill cap removed by the owner.

What about peeking in the the window in the distributor cap for a breaker point conversion kit ? Is that the same thing ? A savvy owner might glue it down to prevent judges from snooping. right brian ?

[Brian M.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

Yes........

At the latest LI-Meto chapter meet we were told specifically not to look under the battery caps by the team leader. We did look under every oil fill cap removed by the owner.

What about peeking in the the window in the distributor cap for a breaker point conversion kit ? Is that the same thing ? A savvy owner might glue it down to prevent judges from snooping. right brian ?

[Jack H.]

Re: Are Gas,Radiator,oil,and Battery caps removed for judging?

That's the perrogative of the Team Leader (issuing judging guidelines)...

On raising the lift window on a distributor cap, I consider that 'fair game' to see what can be seen (is this setup factory original points/condensor or a modern solid state ignition module?). BUT, remember the text of the rule: the judge requests the owner to move/remove items for scrutiny!!!

On this same vein, it's reasonably common for early straight axle judges to request owners to remove the distributor cap altogether. Why? The very early Corvette distributors carry their ID (PN, Etc.) on the breaker plate vs. an external neck band.

You can't verify 'correct Corvette' vs. passenger car without being able to see the breaker plate! Plus, once the distributor cap is off, these guys have visibility to examine the points, rotor, condensor... From that era, the factory original condensors had a script Delco Remy emboss on the end of the can that aftermarket and service replacement parts lack.

So, these Corvette owners get a MUCH more thorough distributor inspection than later car owners do...