Trim and Vin mistakes

[Andy S.]

Were trim and vin errors common back in the mid sixties? Is there any reference material available for these errors?

Thanks

Andy

[Philip C.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

Hi Andy I have a 64 coupe. trim says conv, orig tag for the car never been off or played with. Phil 8063

[Andy S.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

Hello

Thanks for your note.

This is my first Corvette and it looks like I have the same issue, the trim indicates convertible, but its in a coupe. I know for certain that the car is legitimate, the vin is welded in as its supposed to be, and the trim tag is aged and shows no signs of tampering. The metal bar which is part of the cage shows no signs of replacement. The trouble is... now what do I do with the car? Someone came to look at it the other day, saw the discrepancy and immediately thought the worst! Could there be another car out there with the opposite situation?

[Andy S.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

I just found the thread by Mr. Grenning

The following errors have been documented: coupes with convertible VINS, convertibles with coupe VINS, VINS with too many characters, VINS with too few characters, tags installed upside down, trim tags with the incorrect date code, and trim tags seemingly with the incorrect color code. Interestingly, a trim tag with an incorrect "Interior Trim Exception Control Letter" has yet to turn up.

Of course, there is a possibility that this is a made up example and in the process an inappropriate trim tag was installed. However, knowing your experience and knowledge in the hobby that circumstance can be discarded!! Thanks again for bringing it to the discussion site.

Because Corvettes of the period were hand assembled it's the individual quirks in each - that makes them all so interesting. Those quirks include factory mistakes.

Could someone tell me where to find this info?

Thank you!

[Tom D.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

Watch for a Grenning appearance in your area.

Al's a great guy with lots of documents. You will see many examples live. He has also published some - See the books section of this website.

/td

[Loren L.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

"I know for CERTAIN that the car is legitimate." apparently tells me that you are the original owner and you never bitched at the delivering dealer for not correcting this error?

[Terry M.]

[Andy S.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

"I know for CERTAIN that the car is legitimate." apparently tells me that you are the original owner and you never bitched at the delivering dealer for not correcting this error?

So what is that comment supposed to mean? I thought this club was a friendly place to pursue my hobby, learn, and ask questions?

[Jack H.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

Yes, these kinds of errors DID happen... One of our chapter members worked for GM/Chevy at the Denver zone dealer office and can relate a number of tales in this vein where he inspected cars with 'incorrect' tags and worked through the system to get them corrected.

I remember a local fella with a 327/365 HP air coupe who was the original owner and tried to sell it about 10 years ago. He'd never spotted the fact his original VIN tag read to the effect the car was a convertible vs. a coupe....

Now, I've heard of folks converting a coupe into a convertible, but not the other way around! Quite a few local buyers looked at the car and 'skittered' away when they saw the discrepency. His asking price dropped from $25K to $15K before he found a buyer willing to take the 'risk' of ownership...

This brings up an interesting side bar. Now that we have a judging policy regarding VIN/Trim Tag verification and a solid reference book citing original tag profile information (the 'finger print' of the font used to create the Addressograph/Multigraph plates issued by St. Louis), what do we do with these 'exception' cars?

The GM supplied replacement Trim/Vin tags were made/issued from WHQ in Detroit, meaning they were punched out on another A/M machine. So, a careful inspection should find subtle font difference(s)...

IF the original owner passed down the GM correspondence paperwork relating to the tag replacement, the owner is good to go. But, if the original owner discarded that documentation, the current owner could be in a world of hurt with his/her car being ruled a 'fake' because the bona fide GM replacement Trim/VIN tag was printed on a different A/M machine than the one used at St. Louis...

[Kenneth H.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

"I know for CERTAIN that the car is legitimate." apparently tells me that you are the original owner and you never bitched at the delivering dealer for not correcting this error?

Loren, in 1963 or 1964 can you honestly say that you would have checked the numbers on your just delivered 'vette to make sure that everything was correct? As I recall, back then we cared more about driving our cars than collecting them or verifying them for future judging.

[Andy S.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

Yes, these kinds of errors DID happen... One of our chapter members worked for GM/Chevy at the Denver zone dealer office and can relate a number of tales in this vein where he inspected cars with 'incorrect' tags and worked through the system to get them corrected.

I remember a local fella with a 327/365 HP air coupe who was the original owner and tried to sell it about 10 years ago. He'd never spotted the fact his original VIN tag read to the effect the car was a convertible vs. a coupe....

Now, I've heard of folks converting a coupe into a convertible, but not the other way around! Quite a few local buyers looked at the car and 'skittered' away when they saw the discrepency. His asking price dropped from $25K to $15K before he found a buyer willing to take the 'risk' of ownership...

This brings up an interesting side bar. Now that we have a judging policy regarding VIN/Trim Tag verification and a solid reference book citing original tag profile information (the 'finger print' of the font used to create the Addressograph/Multigraph plates issued by St. Louis), what do we do with these 'exception' cars?

The GM supplied replacement Trim/Vin tags were made/issued from WHQ in Detroit, meaning they were punched out on another A/M machine. So, a careful inspection should find subtle font difference(s)...

IF the original owner passed down the GM correspondence paperwork relating to the tag replacement, the owner is good to go. But, if the original owner discarded that documentation, the current owner could be in a world of hurt with his/her car being ruled a 'fake' because the bona fide GM replacement Trim/VIN tag was printed on a different A/M machine than the one used at St. Louis...

Thank you very kindly for your informative note! I'll be doing allot more research!

[Chris E.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

Andy, I've got one of the cars Al Grenning mentions as incorrect body date code on the trim tag.

Mine is a 67 convertible, and it says 66 on the trim tag. It is a REALLY early car (VIN # 100183). Interestingly enough, two cars before mine (# 100181) shows 67 on the trim tag.

I think the person stamping tags that day just slipped up when mine came down the line.

The car has been in the family since 1973, and we have the tank sticker and PoP. No reason to believe that the trim tag was messed with. All other info lines up perfectly (body build #, etc).

I'm in the process of restoring my car for Flight Judging. I'd like to take it to a Regional or National event some day. But I'm curious how the judges will react to that trim tag typo.

[John H.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

I just found the thread by Mr. Grenning

The following errors have been documented: coupes with convertible VINS, convertibles with coupe VINS, VINS with too many characters, VINS with too few characters, tags installed upside down, trim tags with the incorrect date code, and trim tags seemingly with the incorrect color code. Interestingly, a trim tag with an incorrect "Interior Trim Exception Control Letter" has yet to turn up.
Could someone tell me where to find this info?

Thank you!

Al and I are presenting a new 90-minute class on this very subject ("Imperfection From The Get-Go") at the Bloomington GoldSchool on Thursday, June 25th covering aberrations on documentation, trim tags, and pad stamps. Should be a fun session!

[Chris E.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

I wish these sessions were video taped so the rest of us that can't make it could listen in.....

[Andy S.]

Re: Trim and Vin mistakes

I really appreciate the support of all members who took the time to reply to my enquiry about "Trim and Vin mistakes". It makes me allot more confident about the car. I guess my car would qualify for inclusion into the second edition of the trim and vin book. I'd be happy to send Mr. Grenning some pictures.

Has anyone thought about doing a live internet streaming video of this presentation? ("Imperfection From The Get-Go") at the Bloomington GoldSchool)?

PS: could there be someone out there in Corvette-land driving a 1964 convertible with (923AA paint), and (491DE trim)...wearing coupe tags? in and around Vin # 11699*?

Cheers!