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  • Steven B.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • June 30, 1982
    • 3985

    Good Bye Pontiac

    THE AUTO INDUSTRY BAILOUT


    GM prepares to announce Pontiac closure next week


    Jamie LaReau
    Automotive News
    April 24, 2009 - 1:45 pm ET
    UPDATED: 4/24/09 4:10 p.m. ET


    General Motors is preparing to announce early next week that the Pontiac brand will be eliminated, said a source familiar with the company's plans.



    The announcement will be made as part of an updated viability report to the U.S. auto task force, the source said. A second source indicated earlier this week that GM, surviving with $15.4 billion in U.S. bailout funds, was considering phasing out Pontiac instead of sticking with a plan to have it continue as a niche brand.
    In its proposal to the U.S. Treasury on Feb. 17, GM said Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick and GMC would be its four core U.S. brands. On March 31, the task force told GM that its restructuring plan wasn't aggressive enough and denied a request for $16.6 billion in additional aid.
    Pontiac spokesman Jim Hopson declined to comment on Pontiac's future.
    "I can't speculate what next week is going to hold," he said. "When we were asked to go back and look at the viability plan, everything went back on the table. We're reviewing everything. Nothing is sacred. We're still under the original viability plan until told otherwise."
    The U.S. today granted $2 billion to keep GM operating while it prepares for a new, June 1 restructuring deadline. GM has been staying afloat with $13.4 billion in U.S. loans granted in December by President George W. Bush.
    Bloomberg News said GM is expected to tell the government that it will stick with plans to keep GMC, Buick, Chevrolet and Cadillac.
    Saab, Hummer and Saturn are for sale.
    Muscle-car icon
    Pontiac, which launched the 1960s U.S. muscle-car era with the GTO, sold 267,348 vehicles in the United States last year, less than a third of its 1978 peak of 896,980. This year's volume dropped 43.5 percent through March as industrywide demand fell 38.4 percent.
    "Pontiac is one of my favorites -- I especially like the G8," said John Pitre, general manager of Motor City Auto Center in Bakersfield, Calif., which sells Buick-Pontiac-GMC and Saturn. "I would be sad to see it phased out. However, if some of those products became part of the Buick brand, I could understand GM's logic."
    Chris Haydocy, who owns a Buick-Pontiac-GMC store in Columbus, Ohio, said Pontiac isn't essential as long as the revamped sales channel provides most of what customers are looking for.
    Said Haydocy: "I think you need 10 or 12 models to do that."
    Killing Pontiac would make sense, said George Peterson, president of marketing and product consulting firm AutoPacific Inc.
    "It's sort of a shadow of itself," he said. "All of the Pontiacs, except for the G8, are copies of Chevrolets or GMCs, so there really isn't any reason to keep Pontiac around.''
    GM introduced Pontiac in 1926. GM decided to kill Oldsmobile in 2000, three years after its 100th anniversary.
    Chrissie Thompson contributed to this report.
  • Ian G.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • September 3, 2007
    • 1114

    #2
    Re: Good Bye Pontiac

    I read about this last night. I was looking at the Solstice Coupe last night. That's a really cool looking car. I can see people liking the G8 as well, though its not my style. The Saturn Sky is a rebodied Solstice, so why do they say all Pontiac's cars are copies of other GM cars?

    Comment

    • Mike M.
      Expired
      • September 30, 1999
      • 710

      #3
      Re: Good Bye Pontiac

      When Chev & Pontiac have the same type auto aren't they produced on the same production line. Torrent and Equinox are made on the same line I believe. Seems to me this model would not amount to a much of a cost saving. Some other models will for sure.

      Comment

      • Phil D.
        Expired
        • January 17, 2008
        • 206

        #4
        Re: Good Bye Pontiac

        Their February reorganization plan discontinued the Saturn brand at the end of the 2010 model year (I don't remember anything about selling it), I was guessing that Pontiac becoming a "niche" brand would only be an avenue to continue the Solstice, but I figured it meant that Pontiac as a brand was doomed. Sad. Pontiac often took bold chances with styling. They were either drop-dead gorgeous or hideously ugly, but seldom boring. I can't imagine keeping Buick over Pontiac, but I only know what I like. I'm sure the "numbers" will determine what stays and what goes.

        Comment

        • Edward B.
          Very Frequent User
          • January 1, 1988
          • 537

          #5
          Re: Good Bye Pontiac

          Why not kill GMC as well? Does it offer anything that Chevrolet does not?

          Comment

          • Joe L.
            Beyond Control Poster
            • February 1, 1988
            • 43211

            #6
            Re: Good Bye Pontiac

            Originally posted by Edward Boyd (12363)
            Why not kill GMC as well? Does it offer anything that Chevrolet does not?
            Edward-----


            That's exactly what I think. 40 years ago I could not understand why GM had both the Chevrolet and GMC truck lines. If GM has a brand that they really don't need, it's GMC. The Chevrolet and GMC model line-up is virtually the same and the vehicles differ only in trim. In fact, there's much less difference between Chevrolet and GMC models than there is between most of the "look-alike" cars shared by the different divisions. It would seem that this is an obvious choice for elimination and, yet, I haven't even heard it discussed. It must be a "sacred cow" for some reason or another.
            In Appreciation of John Hinckley

            Comment

            • Alan S.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • July 31, 1989
              • 3415

              #7
              Re: Good Bye Pontiac

              Those 'Super Duty' cars from the early 60s certainly bring pleasant memories to many people, I'm sure!
              I guess I understand the current reality, but I'm sad to see the name disappear.
              Regards,
              Alan
              71 Coupe, 350/270, 4 speed
              Mason Dixon Chapter
              Chapter Top Flight October 2011

              Comment

              • Steven B.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • June 30, 1982
                • 3985

                #8
                Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                Originally posted by Alan Struck (15579)
                Those 'Super Duty' cars from the early 60s certainly bring pleasant memories to many people, I'm sure!
                I guess I understand the current reality, but I'm sad to see the name disappear.
                Regards,
                Alan
                SD's, W30's, Twin H's, etc. There were some great ones.

                Comment

                • Dick W.
                  Former NCRS Director Region IV
                  • June 30, 1985
                  • 10483

                  #9
                  Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                  Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)
                  Edward-----


                  That's exactly what I think. 40 years ago I could not understand why GM had both the Chevrolet and GMC truck lines. If GM has a brand that they really don't need, it's GMC. The Chevrolet and GMC model line-up is virtually the same and the vehicles differ only in trim. In fact, there's much less difference between Chevrolet and GMC models than there is between most of the "look-alike" cars shared by the different divisions. It would seem that this is an obvious choice for elimination and, yet, I haven't even heard it discussed. It must be a "sacred cow" for some reason or another.
                  Discussions have been held to ascertain the viability of the GMC brand. The only unique vehicle they have is the Denali, which is nothing more than an upscale trim package.
                  Dick Whittington

                  Comment

                  • Jim S.
                    Expired
                    • August 31, 2001
                    • 730

                    #10
                    Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                    General Motors was originally incorporated as a company with autonomous car divisions that fought and scrapped for market share (not only with Ford, Chrysler, AMC, etc but with each other.) Those effectively seperate car divisions designed and manufactured their own engines. Some even had their own transmissions. A lot of them had their bodies manufactured by Fisher Body. You could tell a Chevrolet from a Pontiac from an Oldsmobile from a Buick from a Cadillac.

                    The beginning of the end was when GM evolved themselves into a centralized corporation. Modern thinking dictated that individual engines, transmissions, bodies, etc were too expensive. It would be much cheaper to design and manufacture them in centralized design centers(and they were acceptable to Ford and Chrysler customers.) Of course up until that time GM had over 60% of the market - could they be doing something right?

                    But let's follow modern thinking (and the bean counter suggestions) to eliminate the redundant manufacturing and design centers throughout the Corporation. So pretty soon we had corporate vehicles designed by committees.

                    Imagine, Oldmobile owners were actually irate when they discovered that there was a Chevrolet corporate V8 in their new Oldsmobile and not a Rocket V8. Pretty soon we had Eldorados that people couldn't tell from a Caprice.

                    I am just sick as to what is happening to one of the mightiest corporations on the planet.

                    Jim

                    Comment

                    • George C.
                      Expired
                      • December 1, 1988
                      • 583

                      #11
                      Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                      Originally posted by Jim Shea (36737)
                      General Motors was originally incorporated as a company with autonomous car divisions that fought and scrapped for market share (not only with Ford, Chrysler, AMC, etc but with each other.) Those effectively seperate car divisions designed and manufactured their own engines. Some even had their own transmissions. A lot of them had their bodies manufactured by Fisher Body. You could tell a Chevrolet from a Pontiac from an Oldsmobile from a Buick from a Cadillac.

                      The beginning of the end was when GM evolved themselves into a centralized corporation. Modern thinking dictated that individual engines, transmissions, bodies, etc were too expensive. It would be much cheaper to design and manufacture them in centralized design centers(and they were acceptable to Ford and Chrysler customers.) Of course up until that time GM had over 60% of the market - could they be doing something right?

                      But let's follow modern thinking (and the bean counter suggestions) to eliminate the redundant manufacturing and design centers throughout the Corporation. So pretty soon we had corporate vehicles designed by committees.

                      Imagine, Oldmobile owners were actually irate when they discovered that there was a Chevrolet corporate V8 in their new Oldsmobile and not a Rocket V8. Pretty soon we had Eldorados that people couldn't tell from a Caprice.

                      I am just sick as to what is happening to one of the mightiest corporations on the planet.

                      Jim
                      I'm sick too about this. Everyday bad news. Bad enough Oldsmobile, now Pontiac. Roger Smith tenure at GM caused the start of alot of these problems. Market share dropped so bad during his time at GM........all his yes men ruined this great company.
                      Buying Japanese cars didn't help GM either. Still not one official in Washington has said one thing about taxing Japanese automobile,made in the USA or Japan. Sick,sick,sick.

                      Comment

                      • Joe C.
                        Expired
                        • August 31, 1999
                        • 4598

                        #12
                        Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                        It is way overdue for GM to bury Pontiac, since, with the exception of the Solstice, their products are merely repackaged Chevrolets with "insect like" front end treatments.

                        There was talk last week of GM killing off GMC, too. AFAIAC, GMC stopped existing in reality, when they stopped making these:



                        or, at least, these:



                        Hopefully, whomever buys Hummer will return the marque to its originally intended purpose, so as to get these gas guzzling behemouths off the roads, where harried and caffeine addicted soccer moms are terrorizing the public.
                        Last edited by Joe C.; April 26, 2009, 08:35 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Michael G.
                          Very Frequent User
                          • March 2, 2008
                          • 485

                          #13
                          Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                          GMC is still producing a good amount of the medium size commercial trucks and flat-beds. I believe they still have contracts with the Federal, State, and Local government municipalities for the vehicles they utilize. At least here on the East coast. Parks department and Local Army outposts are only two of the places I have seen the emblem on many of their vehicles. Don't get me wrong guys, losing Olds was like losing a piece of my youth and Pontiac is equally part of my (OUR) life. GMC products rarely crossed my path over the years and would not be so badly missed. Mike

                          Comment

                          • Jim L.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • September 30, 1979
                            • 1808

                            #14
                            Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                            Originally posted by Jim Shea (36737)
                            General Motors was originally incorporated as a company with autonomous car divisions that fought and scrapped for market share (not only with Ford, Chrysler, AMC, etc but with each other.) Those effectively seperate car divisions designed and manufactured their own engines. Some even had their own transmissions. A lot of them had their bodies manufactured by Fisher Body. You could tell a Chevrolet from a Pontiac from an Oldsmobile from a Buick from a Cadillac.

                            The beginning of the end was when GM evolved themselves into a centralized corporation. Modern thinking dictated that individual engines, transmissions, bodies, etc were too expensive. It would be much cheaper to design and manufacture them in centralized design centers(and they were acceptable to Ford and Chrysler customers.) Of course up until that time GM had over 60% of the market - could they be doing something right?

                            But let's follow modern thinking (and the bean counter suggestions) to eliminate the redundant manufacturing and design centers throughout the Corporation. So pretty soon we had corporate vehicles designed by committees.

                            Imagine, Oldmobile owners were actually irate when they discovered that there was a Chevrolet corporate V8 in their new Oldsmobile and not a Rocket V8. Pretty soon we had Eldorados that people couldn't tell from a Caprice.

                            I am just sick as to what is happening to one of the mightiest corporations on the planet.

                            Jim
                            This is as succinct and as well articulated a description of why GM is failing as anything I've ever read. Nicely written, Jim.

                            Jim

                            Comment

                            • Ridge K.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • May 31, 2006
                              • 1018

                              #15
                              Re: Good Bye Pontiac

                              Originally posted by Edward Boyd (12363)
                              Why not kill GMC as well? Does it offer anything that Chevrolet does not?
                              Ed, the GMC line is what is saving Pontiac, and Buick dealers from going under, if they don't have a Chevrolet franchise.
                              When the American public went so heavy for SUVs, a Buick or Pontiac dealer couldn't have made it without the GMC truck line. I'm quite sure that those dealers who had Pontiac-Buick-GMC, are pleading with GM to keep the GMC line, for their profit margins.
                              Ridge.
                              Good carburetion is fuelish hot air . . .

                              Comment

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