i swapped out my trans with a rebuilt m21 in my 66. when i was adjusting the shifter rods i discoved i could not change gears at the trans before i connected the rods. i could with the clutch in. i decided to start the car to settle it all in, thinking the clutch might be bound. the started would just spin acting like the gear was not engaging the flywheel, was stripped or the bendix was bad. the starter is a year old and never gave any trouble. i got ready to pull the trans and when i removed the bolts i tried selecting gears and it was fine. the motor turns free with socket on the balancers. any ideas what went wrong. i will pull the starter tommorow.
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
The lever for reverse will lock the other shifter levers. The starter issue has nothing to due with the trans. unless the flywheel is loose. You should have not loosened the flywheel to install a new trans.
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
no i just slid one trans out and slid in another. it went very smoothly. the starter does act bad. seems odd it would suddenly go as i drove the car into the bay to do the swap.Comment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
we pulled the starter and tested it them put it back and still no real engagment. the i bought a new starter all seemed well then after i started the motor the new starter started acting the same. the engine turns freely the trans is in neutral with the wheels of the ground and the clutch is in. all i did was swap the trans out. the starter makes a high pitch noise like it is no engaing the flywheel. i am thinking it is an alignment issue but why would swapping the tranny change anything?Comment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
Are the teeth on the flywheel shot?Comment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
Bill-----
If you simply changed the transmissions without getting into anything else, that should have no effect, whatsoever, on the starter. However, you may have removed the starter as part of the operation. If so, that's where the problem must have originated. Did any shims "fall out" and not get replaced?
If you did not remove the starter when you changed transmissions, then I have absolutely no idea why you should have a starter problem after changing transmissions. There's no connection I can see, at all.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
i just shimmed the starter and it seems fine. i remember when i installed the last one the instructions meantioned shimming. it seems to have corrected the issue. what confuses me is why i had the issue, i did not touch the starter at all. i can't see any thing that would change the geometry between the starter and the flywheel. the flywheel teeth look fine. another thing that throws me is that i can only shift the trans with the clutch in. i discovered this when i was adjusting the shifter rods. is this normal or because it is rebuilt. i seem to remember i could shift it under the car with out the clutch in to check alignment.Comment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
i just tested it again and it did it again, we are using over the counter starters. i have a date coded 365 starter i could install but what is stopping me is we discovered the 1 yr old starter has a boken ear and the one i just put in and took back out does as well. what could be causing this? should i pull the trans? we rotated the fly wheel all the way around and all the teeth are good. i supported the engine by the bell housing when i removed the trans could i have damaged any thing? i looks fine.Comment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
Bill-----
Yes, it's possible that you could have damaged something by supporting the engine on the bellhousing but it would be unusual. There really isn't all that much weight supported by the bellhousing in this sort of arrangement. However, it's possible it could happen. Any damage that occurred would consist of a crack in the bellhousing, so you need to check for that possibility. I can't envision any other sort of damage possibility.
Do you have the starter front brace installed? What material is the starter nose---aluminum or cast iron? Also, what is the bellhousing casting number?Last edited by Joe L.; April 14, 2009, 04:26 PM.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
the bell housing seems fine. i used a block of wood. i have been able to succesfully start the car and crank it several revolutions with the starter. the nose of the parts house starters are cast but the gussetts are not as beefy as the factory one i have. i pulled the inspection cover so i can check the engagment the next time i put a starter in. i think i broke this last starter because i did not tighten the brace after i put the shim in. what bothers me is i cannot freely shift the trans by hand with out some one releasing the clutch. i just checked the one i removed and can select gears even when i keep the input shaft from turning. i feel the problem lays in the trans but cannot figure out why. it slid right in and i tightened the bolts by hand most of the way and it butted the bell housing with no gap to draw in. what i have to ask only to rule it out,could the crank have been bent in any way to affect the starter engagment? keeping in mind i have had the starter engaging fine just not consistantly.Comment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
Bill-----
ALL starter noses are CAST, but cast WHAT? Is it cast iron or cast aluminum? However, by "cast" I'm going to assume you mean cast IRON. In that case, you have the correct starter nose. It should attach to the block with TWO bolts of 3-5/8" length.
I can't see any way that the starting problem is related to the transmission. If the clutch is depressed while starting (as it should always be), the transmission is, for all practical purposes, "isolated" from the flywheel.
I don't see any possibility that the crank was "bent" or in any other way distorted as a result of anything you've done so far.
What is the casting number on the bellhousing? It's usually very easy to see.
Are all the bellhousing-to-block bolts tightened to torque specification?Last edited by Joe L.; April 14, 2009, 05:52 PM.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
it is cast iron, i forgot about the cast aluminum. i agree with you about the trans, what baffles me is why the starter suddenly developed an issue after working fine for the last year. the bell housing is a "444". i do think it is a shimming issue also the quality of the nose on the starter i put in today seemed thin poor. i think i was on the right track when i shimmed it but i think i forgot to tighten up the bracket and the ear broke causing it to be out of alignment again. i had started the car 4 times before it acted up again. i do not want to risk puting in my "365" starter until i am sure.i will give it another shot tommorow with another starter.Comment
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Re: advice on unexpected issue swapping trans on 66
i think i solved the mystery. i think when i supported and jacked up the rear of the engine to install the trans, as you can just get the shaft in the bell housing, i must have broken an ear on the starter. without the ear it will never engage right. in frustration i forgot to put the rear brace on the new starter and broke another ear. the quality of part store cast iron nose starers is poor at best. if you compare an original "365" starter to it there is a big difference. i put the original starter in and it hung up. i decided to put a new one in and shim if needed. it ended up not needing shimming and works well. what threw me off was why the starter developed the issue. that is why i over reacted. thanks for the advice you put me to ease on my biggest fears. i run 3 companies and work on my car as i get time. it is at my car audio shop.Comment
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